Quote Originally Posted by Raikki View Post
Oh boy, this tired old argument again. "My group isn't coordinated and can't execute well enough to get speed runs, therefor it's a bad design and needs to be changed." Sub-17 isn't stressful at all. You can even get under 15 minutes, so there's plenty of spare time to not be perfect. Amazingly enough, learning to play and getting everyone on the same page and executing a plan smoothly is fun. It's really not even hard at all, there are pickup groups doing it. Get yourself a parser so you can identify who's having issues and help them address those issues (whether it's gear, spell/weaponskill rotation, whatever). The whole point of MMO endgame is to improve as a group. Why would anyone be satisfied just muddling through raids? What's the point of continuing to do something if you don't care about improving?

Bottom line: if you don't care about your performance (and yes, the speed of your raid clears is a valid measure of your performance) maybe you don't deserve the best gear in the game.
Well its really 17m speed runs are just really plain stupid. You actually do stuff on 25m 5 chest runs, but race to the finish so the one treasure chest at the end will have something in it is a really dumb way to go about it. Even though you only have to do each 3 times and DH once, its really not fun. Its like something to do if you have absolutely nothing else to do pretty much. Glad speed runs for items is going away in ARR, maybe relic quest will be a little more funner then.