All Worlds Emergency Maintenance (Sep. 20)

[darkstarpoet1]

Pretty much, but then you have to realize that while it's not something that can be technically qualified as an exploit, many players nevertheless will use that term to describe stuff they believe is unbalanced/unfair etc.

It's just semantics tbh.

if you want to look at it that way then making and selling francesca heads for major profit was not an exploit, fighting mobs naked so the casters could cure over and over to proc max xp was not an exploit, making and selling fish hooks for major profit was not an exploit, using a crafter to stun ifrit was not an exploit, burning down garuda before astral flow was not an exploit, linking leves as fisher to get massive exp was not an exploit, leve linking parties where you fail leves were not exploits, and raising and standing still during moogle to get another shot at them was not an exploit.

none of those are exploits by that definition, but they all did something that the dev staff had not intended so they were taken care of and deemed as exploits. all of the above were using things in the game to an advantage so they were deemed exploits and taken care of.

[Aenarion]

stuff

What Reika and I have been trying clarify is the definition of exploit for game devs from a technical (and eula/game mechanics) standpoint.

Your dictionary definition really has little application here as far as that goes. Not saying you can't use the term exploit to describe it, just that it's not really the correct/accurate term.

[Cynthis]

Eh, in my book, an exploit is taking advantage of something like a bug, or a broken mechanic that is clearly not working as originally designed.

Except you have to look at the full picture when making that call and not just each individual component and mechanic since it all adds up to the player experience.

So either this is working completely as intended in which cases SEs intention was to destroy the economy, and for the life of me I can't figure out why they would do that, or SE did something incredibly incompetent (Not least for letting it go on so long and not fixing it within hours) that did not work as originally intended, in which case it is an exploit.

That being said, I would never argue for punishing players who take advantage of such obvious mismanagement of a game. SE could have fixed this very quickly and chose not to so the result is SEs fault, not the fault of the players that used the exploit.

[Reika]

ex·ploit (ksploit, k-sploit)n. An act or deed, especially a brilliant or heroic one. See Synonyms at feat1.

tr.v. (k-sploit, ksploit) ex·ploit·ed, ex·ploit·ing, ex·ploits 1. To employ to the greatest possible advantage: exploit one's talents.
2. To make use of selfishly or unethically: a country that exploited peasant labor. See Synonyms at manipulate.
3. To advertise; promote.


just saying...

Exploit when used in an mmo means something else.

That's 70% of my current wealth. I've never had more than 20mil at one time. (by my own choosing) Somehow this is fair that you can generate that kind of money and actually ENCOURAGE people to take advantage of it?

I guess there are hardly any honest people left in the world. People only continue to do it because they know there's no repercussions.

Dont worry about it too much. just like my once 8 mil gil, my now 16m gil will just sit on my char forever. i dont really buy too much from people, since I also craft and gather everything myself. Its more likely to end up used on vendor materials like coke.

[Aenarion]

if you want to look at it that way then making and selling francesca heads for major profit was not an exploit, fighting mobs naked so the casters could cure over and over to proc max xp was not an exploit, making and selling fish hooks for major profit was not an exploit, using a crafter to stun ifrit was not an exploit, burning down garuda before astral flow was not an exploit, linking leves as fisher to get massive exp was not an exploit, leve linking parties where you fail leves were not exploits, and raising and standing still during moogle to get another shot at them was not an exploit.

none of those are exploits by that definition, but they all did something that the dev staff had not intended so they were taken care of and deemed as exploits. all of the above were using things in the game to an advantage so they were deemed exploits and taken care of.

Read my above post where I said a part of it really comes down to dev's discretion, also, exploit, at least where I come from, is something that's a bannable offense, and most of your example really falls more under design oversight than exploits.

[Elexia]

I'll tell you why this is not an 'exploit'.

Firstly, SE set the vendor price for Dawn Drops.

They've been at the GC since...forever so no SE didn't expect people to buy them even at all since mobs rarely debuff you, let alone sleep you.

Now SE adds the Atomos NM event, where you can get over-aspected crystals/clusters and exchange them for Seals of your Grand Company

Which was a good way to rank up and get your gear, especially newer players.

The NPC that gives you seals for crystals wont let you turn in anymore if it will put you over cap. So any player that has everything they want from GC and wants to get that 500k seal ach, has to do something about it.

That 500k seal achievement could be obtained normally even before this event, it was a long term goal for helping out your GC. Can you explain the logic of people who got the achievement and still gaining seals and vendoring drops?

Its not an exploit, its something to take advantage of while it lasts.

THAT IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF AN EXPLOIT.

[NarikoStar]

Pretty much agree with Reika,

When you've bought all the 25k weapons you would need, crafting set, all 3 chocobo barding, x4 lowbie GC outfit, the 6k overcoat set, all of the GC accessories pieces, excess 'cool' looking gear (limsa has some pink pieces!) Relic key item, all ayther passes, over 20 stacks of both grade 4/5 dark matter, around 12 stacks of firepots, x6crafting/gathering scrolls (low and high), enough rat tails/ midge baskets to get my fisher from 36 >> 50...

....then currently sitting at 49,972 seals with x2 stacks of crystals left with 402/500k left on shield achievement and NOTHING else to spend them on. I'll dump the rest on dawn drops/blood drops.. 1 hour left /6m

;/ Some people really don't have much else they could spend it on and I'll take an advantage of gil as it comes~

[Aenarion]

Except you have to look at the full picture when making that call and not just each individual component and mechanic since it all adds up to the player experience.

So either this is working completely as intended in which cases SEs intention was to destroy the economy, and for the life of me I can't figure out why they would do that, or SE did something incredibly incompetent (Not least for letting it go on so long and not fixing it within hours) that did not work as originally intended, in which case it is an exploit.

The system is working completely as intended, the result however, is not. That means it is not an "exploit" by definition, but rather a design flaw that needs to be fixed/rebalanced.

I think the issue here is that a lot of people's definition of "exploit" is rather overly broad. I mean, you can pretty much fit in just about anything that ever got rebalanced or tweaked to fit under your definition of exploit.

[Reika]

They've been at the GC since...forever so no SE didn't expect people to buy them even at all since mobs rarely debuff you, let alone sleep you.



Which was a good way to rank up and get your gear, especially newer players.



That 500k seal achievement could be obtained normally even before this event, it was a long term goal for helping out your GC. Can you explain the logic of people who got the achievement and still gaining seals and vendoring drops?



THAT IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF AN EXPLOIT.

nonono, the faction leve exploit was an exploit, because it was taking advantage of a BUG. I reported that one btw. There is no bug to be taken advantage of by trading seals for dawn drops and then vendoring. That is working as intended.

[Orophin]

What Reika and I have been trying clarify is the definition of exploit for game devs from a technical (and eula/game mechanics) standpoint.

Your dictionary definition really has little application here as far as that goes. Not saying you can't use the term exploit to describe it, just that it's not really the correct/accurate term.

Exploit (video gaming)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.

If that's not the accurate term I don't know what is. It was obviously not the design intent of the devs to accumulate seals, even after the nerf on the clusters, to buy up items to vendor for gil.