PLD Gear?

[SwordCoheir]

I'd honestly upgrade with these options in mind.

MH: Garuda's Gaze, Giantsgall Longsword, Mog Blade, Lieutenant's Weapon, Sergeant's Weapon (Ifrit's Decent but it's the lowest on the End Game Weaponry)
OH: Thormoen's Purpose / Vintage Kite Shield +1 (Def Meld)
Helm: Cobalt/Sentinels Celata (MND Meld) (Try for a 30 Minimum at least)
Body: Cobalt Cuirass (VIT or Def Meld, your pick) (Aim for 30+ as well)
Gloves: Cobalt/Sentinel's Gauntlets (STR Meld) (Again aim for 30+)
Legs: Militia Trousers / Felt Trousers (STR/VIT Meld) (Try to get at least 15 STR/VIT)
Feet: Sentinel's/Cobalt Sabatons (Meld w/e you want, feet materia options are horrible)
Waist: Cobalt/Sentinel's Plate Belt (Aim for 40+ Enmity)

And upgrade to the best undies and undershirt you can find or get made. A few def is a few def no matter how you look at it.

Accessories:
Ear: Stonewall Earrings / Raven's Earring
Neck: Militia Choker / Explorer's Choker
Wrist: Coral Armillae / Raptorskin Bracelet
Rings: Rubellite Ring +1 x2 / Electrum Ring +1 x2

Block power is pretty much worthless, as is 20 hp. Out of the two block related stats, block rate is more important. Def is both magical damage taken and physical, I believe, but I'm looking for test results.

Negative, defense only impacts physical damage, VIT however affects all non-DoT damage taken. It's actually a toss up either way tbh, VIT doesn't quite benefit mitigation as well as straight Defense, but it offers magical resistance in return and boosts your Enhancement Magic Potency (which actually scales pretty good in this game) making Stoneskin/Protect and other magic buffs stronger in turn.

[Molly_Millions]

Negative, defense only impacts physical damage, VIT however affects all non-DoT damage taken. It's actually a toss up either way tbh, VIT doesn't quite benefit mitigation as well as straight Defense, but it offers magical resistance in return and boosts your Enhancement Magic Potency (which actually scales pretty good in this game) making Stoneskin/Protect and other magic buffs stronger in turn.

Do you have test results or know where I can find some? Because I haven't seen any tests for DEF. I've seen them for VIT, but not for DEF. Without test results, this is an assumption.

[SwordCoheir]

Do you have test results or know where I can find some? Because I haven't seen any tests for DEF. I've seen them for VIT, but not for DEF. Without test results, this is an assumption.

Well as Stufoo pointed out there is a trait given to CONJ/WHM that adds/increases magical defense gained from Protect.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Enhanced_Protect

And back when the classes were initially revamped in 1.19 (1.20 maybe?), they did state that when they removed Shell they were adding a trait to Conj that gives Protect Magical Defense properties, so it's generally believed that they are classified as separate stats.

Considering there is no Magic Defense stat, I can easily see why you could assume that. But if you cast/receive Protect from a CONJ/WHM if you look at your elemental resistances they themselves increase. So it leads me to believe that your resistances is your only form of Magic Defense outside of VIT.

If you wan't an example of why Defense isn't generally believed to affect Magic Defense though, I can tell you on more than a few occasions when doing Garuda anyone who get's hit with Mistral Shriek/Song generally get's hit for around the same amount of damage as I do on either PLD or WAR.

[Denmo]

You should only stack VIT as a PLD if you're trying to survive running through trash mobs (like say, AV).

Otherwise, HP, MND, Accuracy, and STR.

[Judge_Xero]

You should only stack VIT as a PLD if you're trying to survive running through trash mobs (like say, AV).

Otherwise, HP, MND, Accuracy, and STR.

On trash mobs, you would be better to stack Dex (Block Rate) and wear a high Block Rate Shield.
It would be better to block 36% of damage 87% of the time, than 50% of damage 42% of the time.

(Divine Veil @ 100% Block Rate + 75% Block Rate VS. Divine Veil @ 100% Block Rate + 30% Block Rate)

But for your example - AV or CC where your DV timer comes off between rooms and the mob levels are still high you are correct to stack VIT for Block and rely on the 20 second timer for DV

This thread belongs in General(trash)...

There is a lot of great information on a lot of these posts. Especially the DEF testing (amazing).
It's also a great example of how people interpret a perfectly laid out set of data and testing (seems that some people still don't get it), and also shows the various ways people play PLD.

[Molly_Millions]

There is a lot of great information on a lot of these posts. Especially the DEF testing (amazing).
It's also a great example of how people interpret a perfectly laid out set of data and testing (seems that some people still don't get it), and also shows the various ways people play PLD.

This is true. Some people are just too damn ignorant to see the value in the conversation stemming from my wrongness. (here's looking at you STFU) But hey, a post is only valuable when it agrees with our own viewpoint, isn't it?


Numbers and test results really hold no value if we don't have a discussion of how they should be applied.

[Stufoo]

On trash mobs, you would be better to stack Dex (Block Rate) and wear a high Block Rate Shield.
It would be better to block 36% of damage 87% of the time, than 50% of damage 42% of the time.

(Divine Veil @ 100% Block Rate + 75% Block Rate VS. Divine Veil @ 100% Block Rate + 30% Block Rate)

Hey Judge, just wanted to clarify on this and how strange your block rate difference estimates are. The logic is sound if there weren't abilities such as sentinel, divine veil, and other mitigators that completely trump the incentive to mitigate trash pulls in the first place. Like, of course you want to block more, but the difference isn't large enough to care. The logic just doesn't fit into the game's situations, but for clarification, you can't make this large of an improvement on block rate in the game at all.

For a Holy Shield 110 block rate + standard HDL 206 dex build to have a 30% block rate, the floor for that monster would have to be -12.6%. I don't think this is likely to happen on "trash monsters" but I have no idea, let's roll with it.

Floor + (Block Rate x (.2)) + (DEX x (.1)) = block rate ≤ 75%

so

30% - (110x(.2)) - (206x(.1)) = -12.6% floor

Likewise, considering you were talking about the same scenario when comparing (trash monsters, standard vs. high block rate + dex stack), let's see how much you'd need to reach 75% standard block rate on a -12.6% floor.

The increase from -12.6% to 75% is 87.6%, so you'd need around 438 block rate, or 876 dex, or some combination of the two. As you can see the numbers for this increase are just unreachable in any sense. Realistically, you could have... 196 maximum possible block rate from gear and traits. You'd still need 484 dex total.

I want to put up the math for the block power differences too, but it's pretty safe to say that to gain that 45% block rate, you'd be giving up 43~45% mitigation in block as well in the shield alone, not 14% as in your example. So basically, there's a reason we use Kite and Tower shields. Our abilities override the need for block rate. Nothing overrides the need for block power.

A more reasonable comparison would be Holy shield 110 vs. Gridanian Buckler 178. In the above example, simple switching to the gridanian buckler alone would net you a +13.6% increase in block rate (30->43.6). However, you are trading +13.6% block rate for -13.4% mitigation (Holy shield +27.6% -> Gridanian Buckler +14.2%). Numbers like these are just too small to care about for trash monsters in the game's current scenarios and ability design (divine veil).

Comparing individual things like HDL gauntlets vs. Sentinel's Gauntlets shows a clear winner (12 VIT = 6 Block Power = 1.2% mitigation vs. 5 Block Rate = 1.0% block rate), then when you meld DEX onto the sentinel's gauntlets you are just trading block rate for defense, and non-mitigation stats like HP, Enmity, and Mind, for very, very little gain.

[SwordCoheir]

The increase from -12.6% to 75% is 87.6%, so you'd need around 438 block rate, or 876 dex, or some combination of the two. As you can see the numbers for this increase are just unreachable in any sense. Realistically, you could have... 196 maximum possible block rate from gear and traits. You'd still need 484 dex total.

Aye that's a good assertion, don't forget that the bonus from block rate from the +block gear caps out at 20% though.

[Judge_Xero]

Hey Judge, just wanted to clarify on this and how strange your block rate difference estimates are....

I agree that my block rate estimates were a bit high @ 75%

A better comparison (in my case) would be like:
Max 60% Block rate on lvl 52 Mobs, with a Block Value of around 35% (Gridanian Buckler)(Garuda's Gaze)(300 Dex)
Max 32% Block rate on lvl 52 Mobs, with a Block Value of around 55% (Holy Shield)(350 VIT)

Nothing overrides the need for block power.

This is correct. So for anything important, you will be better off with Block, since your Sentinel or Divine Veil willl be off cooldown.

With the limited gains on Block Rate and Block. It almost seems like it's useless to add it anywhere you could put accuracy, damage or enmity.

Edit: Sweet. In before thread lock.