I wouldn't mind FFXIV becoming a WoW clone in the casual/hardcore appeal if...

[Orophin]

I've never been too big on achievements, yet the ones going away I feel compelled to do since it's something the new players won't be able to accomplish. On the other hand, I don't want to go out of my way to do with the luminary stuff. That must sound bad.

[Priya]

Ok, at the point you asked if I understand that fundamental concept, in Spanish... I stopped reading, gotta be honest.

I don't see why he's not allowed to use "comprende." I also think that this is what we were talking about manifesting itself in forum form. You stopped reading and assumed the rest. Just like some people stopped WoW after 5 man dungeons and assumed the rest. Just like others stopped FFXI at level 60 and assumed the rest. Just like some people will stop XIV after AF and assume the rest.

Yes, 20 pages in no one is in any place different from where they started, but so it always goes.

[Exn]

I don't see why he's not allowed to use "comprende." I also think that this is what we were talking about manifesting itself in forum form. You stopped reading and assumed the rest. Just like some people stopped WoW after 5 man dungeons and assumed the rest. Just like others stopped FFXI at level 60 and assumed the rest. Just like some people will stop XIV after AF and assume the rest.

Yes, 20 pages in no one is in any place different from where they started, but so it always goes.

He's allowed to use whatever he'd like.. and it wasn't so much the tacky use of "comprende", that just tip'd the bucket, but moreso acting like he made some sorta revelation. What's worse is I didn't even claim anything thats contrary to "not all content is created equal", but I guess he wanted to cut-n-paste some spiel of his from before?? I dunno, as I said I stopped reading.. From his previous posts, I could tell that his argument was just going to continue to degrade into what I view as childish-like banter, and lost interest.. As I stated, it could have been something enlightening as well, but at this point I just don't care..

[kazaran]

There are aspects from many MMo's they are looking at, while keepign true to FF. However WOW as a concept of drop rates, just a tad better, maybe, but what other aspects other then PVP areana's? The AI is horrid and far too simple, XI's was far superior. I rather they take some idea's from Rift for gear and getting world items.

Taking anything from Wow's crafting would be a step backwards.

Mayabe transit hubs.

Wow is outdated. THe AI, craftign mechanics, to simplified, especailly for today. It lacks story. THey need to stick with how AI made people feel but less grinding (which they have). Make drosp less difficult, or change to items you collect to get gear.

Hardcore players just do not ee much in WOW worth cloning other then soem aspects wow adopted itself. THen agai nthe UI creator and many who orginally created that for WOW are now part of TRION and RIft.

[fusional]

There are aspects from many MMo's they are looking at, while keepign true to FF. However WOW as a concept of drop rates, just a tad better, maybe, but what other aspects other then PVP areana's? The AI is horrid and far too simple, XI's was far superior. I rather they take some idea's from Rift for gear and getting world items.

Taking anything from Wow's crafting would be a step backwards.

Mayabe transit hubs.

Wow is outdated. THe AI, craftign mechanics, to simplified, especailly for today. It lacks story. THey need to stick with how AI made people feel but less grinding (which they have). Make drosp less difficult, or change to items you collect to get gear.

Hardcore players just do not ee much in WOW worth cloning other then soem aspects wow adopted itself. THen agai nthe UI creator and many who orginally created that for WOW are now part of TRION and RIft.

why would they take ideas from a game that directly ripped them off and flopped? that's like saying they should borrow from SWTOR. why? it failed. and you absolutely do NOT speak for the rest of hardcore players. i'd even go far enough as to say your position is... weird.

http://www.mmodata.net/

notice how rift doesn't even show up on the 1-12m subs charts? notice how rift peaked at 600k subs in its prime and has already dropped to less than half of that in just a year?

and you think the most successful MMO in history should 'borrow' from that?

i don't think anybody's going to say WoW is perfect. not by any stretch of the imagination. but you don't fix what's broken about a game by copying an even more broken game. that's just an awful awful awful business model.

[kazaran]

What gae flopped? RIft? You must not play it very much, I went back and was a little distracted about how pracked the realms have gotten again.

RIft had better dynamic content, as well as realativly bug free at beta.

After last log in (since you can play free to 20 on any chracter). The current realms have over 500k on at once) which is to many honestly. They however do not report non paid subs like BLizzard sdoes hince why the site you choose has incorrect data.

Rift is also not as casual as wow. Has my events, globally, randomly, and has a harder curve. TH UI is much more dynamic (check reviews). Jobs much more varied (more varied then wow by a large margin) and the battle sytem more complex.

There is alot that can be taken from RIft and other mmo's, wow would be the least reliable since it's source is so out dated.


If you rely on sub sites stats, you will miss out on real data, fun, and games. Typically in a realm, RIft is more balanced. Higher realms are to packed while they show which are the current most balanced so you don't make a bad decision.

One thing is certain Rift has more dynamic then WOW. BEign a fan boy of an outdated game doesn't make it a better game. Generally younger crowds flock to it becuase of hype, yet the adverage age of gamers on RIft and FFXIV are higher and of a more mature range.

If FFXIV becomes more like WOW, they will be going backwards and it will be pretty much finished.

ENdgame in wow wasn't hard. With the right groups it was easy to get your gear, add on slots, and max out. It was harder to get end game top gear in XI (well for awhile at least) . You had to spend endless months gettign the items to have it made, or endless runs for basic end game gear (not the better gear).

WOW bosses are nto dynamic. THe AI is very simplified, they had hudge pools of HP. SO basially you had to slap them down slowely. XI's AI was more advanced even if it was an older game. Mobs coudl counter common used moves. Silence mages when they get weak and healers are getting to ahead. Detect when WS were ready and be ready to counter. IT was smoroer based o elements, defense, spell defense, crackign it down, then takign the mob down.

[fusional]

"wow bosses aren't dynamic"

so, you've never played the game- or at least never actually raided. yep, got it. thanks for clearing that up. but maybe next time before you say something so ridiculously off-base, go play with Ragnaros (catacylsm) or something... rather than basing your opinion on ... what exactly? what did you even do in the game? name names, provide examples.

and for the record, i rely on sub data sites because, i don't know- FACTS ARE IMPORTANT? especially when you try to make sweeping claims about the negative aspects about one game (with ~10 million active subs) while boasting the positive aspects of another game (with less than 300k subs, and never more than 600k. so that's cool that you're pulling this 500k number completely out of your ass. good job). what makes this all the more amusing is the simple fact of how Rift tried to market itself as the game that would finally topple the WoW giant. so, yes. if you market yourself as a WoW killer and you never break a million subs, and half your player base quits within 1-2 months-

you failed. you flopped. you sh*t the bed. and that's what rift did.

but no, that's cool. keep doing that thing so many people in this thread have already tried where you keep spouting a bunch of baseless crap about one game while blindly beating your chest about another. with no data, no facts, no logic, no measured case by case examples. and then resort to classic projection calling *me* the fanboy when i don't even play WoW anymore and don't care to.

i don't understand how it's so difficult for you people to be reasonable. but flail on, i guess.

[Kiote]

What gae flopped? RIft? You must not play it very much, I went back and was a little distracted about how pracked the realms have gotten again.

While I personally think Rift is terrible, it certainly didn't flop. SOme people are just delusional and think 1 mil+ subs is normal for an MMO.

Most MMOs are closer to 100k.

Well planned MMOs can survive with 50k.

The only things required to keep an MMO in business is earning more money than it costs to make and maintain.

[fusional]

While I personally think Rift is terrible, it certainly didn't flop. SOme people are just delusional and think 1 mil+ subs is normal for an MMO.

Most MMOs are closer to 100k.

Well planned MMOs can survive with 50k.

The only things required to keep an MMO in business is earning more money than it costs to make and maintain.

once again, if you market yourself as a WoW-killer and you don't even make a *scratch* on their market, you failed. period. bottom line. the end.

at this point i'd say you're only looking for new bandwagons to hop on in this thread because you're still upset.

[Kiote]

once again, if you market yourself as a WoW-killer and you don't even make a *scratch* on their market, you failed. period. bottom line. the end.

at this point i'd say you're only looking for new bandwagons to hop on in this thread because you're still upset.

No body markets them self as a WoW-Killer. People like you claim that games are going to be WoW-Killers and then bash them when they don't hit multiple millions of subs.