Am I dense?

[Onisake]

i think the concept of diminishing returns is so abstract the average player wouldnt even consider this and as such i dont see how it would filter people from content.. it wouldnt even occur to people is what im saying.

it's for the hardcore crowd.

im not sure the difference between single and triple.. hell even quad melded gear is so noticeble.. i have been trying to gear my DRG and WAR to do more damage, i have some respectable gear- darklight, GC trident, double melded STR hands, when i compare it to what people would consider lesser gear, (non melded/non darklight) is see minimal returns, and on boss mobs those returns are reduced even further!..

this is about optimization. let's say i'm a war and i need +70STR and +40 VIT. I have sanction, a garuda's and storm officer's cap and +60STR gloves. I can hit cap with those pieces alone. that opens my body, rings, neck. etc. for crit damage. i can drastically increase my damage now due to improved optimization because i only need to find 10 vit somewhere between my now available slots.

If i only have +20STR glovse. I need to get the other 50 STR in rings, legs, etc. no room for crit damage.

when i equip that dark light cuirass i spent 2 months doing the same dungeon 20 times a day to get... i expect to see something.

however, i know blm's rave about melded gear and INT so i dunno- maybe if i was blm i would be singing a different song. but this isnt the case with what i have experienced as a melee dps.

int does not have a soft cap. magical damage is dealt differently than physical damage. a BLM can always increase their damage by adding more INT. melee have to find a different way (Crit, att, etc.)

edit-

fundamentally, you CANNOT ballance content for players with "crappy" gear and players with good gear if you want the good gear to mean anything if they have better gear the content is going to be easier for them and it is pointless to try and get around that with "diminishing returns" and such

the only way to make the gear meaningfull is by making it filter people from content.. this should even serve as their motivation to get the gear in the first place.

Diminishing returns is mainly for PvP. PvE i would agree this does not matter. Yoshi has said he loves PvP. this falls in line with that goal.

[Rogue]

Diminishing returns is mainly for PvP. PvE i would agree this does not matter. Yoshi has said he loves PvP. this falls in line with that goal.

hmm im not sure why it should be different for PVP, it is the exact same scenario, if i have better gear than someone i should have an advantage or else why bother? not trying to argue but i think this is a valid point.

if someone can get 500 STR from melding then all the power to em, in fact im sure they deserve whatever benefit they get- without the stat-police saying "oh no we will have to cap you at 350, sorry bout that"

brass tacks- the whole stat system imho is a complete mess, everything about it is counter-intuitive and overly complicated.

changes have obviously been thought about though- going by yoshi's post, so hopefully it will come good, but i think it is flawed on a fundamental level and needs drastic changes.

[Sephrick]

hmm im not sure why it should be different for PVP, it is the exact same scenario, if i have better gear than someone i should have an advantage or else why bother? not trying to argue but i think this is a valid point.

if someone can get 500 STR from melding then all the power to em, in fact im sure they deserve whatever benefit they get- without the stat-police saying "oh no we will have to cap you at 350, sorry bout that"

brass tacks- the whole stat system imho is a complete mess, everything about it is counter-intuitive and overly complicated.

changes have obviously been thought about though- going by yoshi's post, so hopefully it will come good, but i think it is flawed on a fundamental level and needs drastic changes.

The way I understand it they just want people to be able to use more Materia than the base attributes.

With a lower cap on those, it opens up for a wider use of attack or crit attack and things like that. So something quad melded still will be superior, but all four of those melds don't have to be str anymore.

Again, as I understand what others are saying.

[Madruk]

Make gear less important in a gear centric game? Pure genius.

[Eclipse]

Dense as the mightiest Minotaur or tallest tree!





I have no clue what's actually being said here and find it quite concerning.

From what I understand

• Base stats will be higher/lower and we will receive more/less per level
• One point of a stat will contribute more/less
• Damage, accuracy, evasion, critical etc are all related to your level verses mob level in 1.0

What isn't being said however is if materia stats are to go up or down in 2.0 or if the player vs mob level system is to continue leading to even more confusion.



Or is the very point of this post going way over my head?

This is concerning. Does that mean that investments we have put in now are going to be minute in 2.0?

I guess we will just have to wait and see, but I like it how it is now. And I agree with Rogue.

[Lux_Rayna]

hmm im not sure why it should be different for PVP, it is the exact same scenario, if i have better gear than someone i should have an advantage or else why bother? not trying to argue but i think this is a valid point.

if someone can get 500 STR from melding then all the power to em, in fact im sure they deserve whatever benefit they get- without the stat-police saying "oh no we will have to cap you at 350, sorry bout that"

brass tacks- the whole stat system imho is a complete mess, everything about it is counter-intuitive and overly complicated.

changes have obviously been thought about though- going by yoshi's post, so hopefully it will come good, but i think it is flawed on a fundamental level and needs drastic changes.

That assumes a gear dependent game. Most MMOs these days are trying to blend skill and strategy into their games. You cant do this if gear trumps everything else all the time. Diminishing returns prevents gear/gil ftw (pvp balance) and encourages more variety in stat distribution.

The reaaon some may not prefer it for pve is because dLvl nerfs you anyways. Having dLvL and diminishing returns nerf you may feel like cheap difficulty...rather than making a fight harder by design.

[Madruk]

The flaw in that is it doesn't matter how much skill and strategy you put into a fight, most are just going to do it once and forget about it if the rewards aren't worth coming back for. Thus people lose interest more quickly and the content you put so much effort and work into gets largely unused after the first time.

You can easily do both, no reason not to. Tiered progression has been a successful model for 10 years now.

[Fadigre]

This is concerning. Does that mean that investments we have put in now are going to be minute in 2.0?

I guess we will just have to wait and see, but I like it how it is now. And I agree with Rogue.

Exactly the reason I made this thread. I'm terrified that what I have now won't be worth anything in the future

[Griss]

With a lower cap on those, it opens up for a wider use of attack or crit attack and things like that. So something quad melded still will be superior, but all four of those melds don't have to be str anymore.

Again, as I understand what others are saying.

Bingo.

They lower the soft caps, but at the same time increase the weight of those numbers on the math magic. It allows for a wider array of options when it comes to the types of rocks people cram into gear.