Game pad vs Keyboard

[ispano]

Most of that doesnt make much sense but in my case I can target what i want, hit the spell i want in 3 or 4 button presses given that i have macros on triggers. in av for example group stop at your kill spot target your mob usually involves pressing left or right once or twice if you target one thet dies fast hit your trigger and press your macro.

while a mouse has a sense of precision in the mass pull fests this game has trying to click the mob in the middle with the most hp with a mouse is rather hard to do personally. with a pad i can just hit left or rightt ill i find one with high enough hp to survive my casting time.

the differences between pad vs mouse/keyboard aren't dramatically different. and vary hugely. you'll never see evidence that gamepad monks regularly out perform mouse keyboards monks or vice versa

You'll hopefully realize in my first response I said that the current UI latency and whatnot reduces the effectiveness. However, come 2.0 much of that should be cleared up.

Let me ask you this? What if you have several macros, not just 2 or 3? What if you need many many skills? You'll have to hit a button several more times to get to the appropriate key. As it is now, I hit the key I need, OR use a thumb button once to move the bar up or down, then hit one key. I don't need to move to the right or left whatsoever. Come 2.0 I won't have to move the bar either.

As for one outdoing the other? I've played with many people, many who use one form of control or the other. The ones using Gamepads I can regularly see me, even with my 200+ Latency, performing skill chains before them, getting into position before them and whatnot. That's of course only my word on that, no real proof.

Also, not to mention, while you're "tabbing" through targets to get the right one, with the default controller setup you're also not moving. If you change movement to the other stick, or targeting to a different button you can, but then you can't do something else while moving and targeting. I can.

Also saying the differences aren't dramatically different, yet vary hugely, is contradicting yourself.

[darkstarpoet1]

You'll hopefully realize in my first response I said that the current UI latency and whatnot reduces the effectiveness. However, come 2.0 much of that should be cleared up.

Let me ask you this? What if you have several macros, not just 2 or 3? What if you need many many skills? You'll have to hit a button several more times to get to the appropriate key. As it is now, I hit the key I need, OR use a thumb button once to move the bar up or down, then hit one key. I don't need to move to the right or left whatsoever. Come 2.0 I won't have to move the bar either.

As for one outdoing the other? I've played with many people, many who use one form of control or the other. The ones using Gamepads I can regularly see me, even with my 200+ Latency, performing skill chains before them, getting into position before them and whatnot. That's of course only my word on that, no real proof.

Also, not to mention, while you're "tabbing" through targets to get the right one, with the default controller setup you're also not moving. If you change movement to the other stick, or targeting to a different button you can, but then you can't do something else while moving and targeting. I can.

Also saying the differences aren't dramatically different, yet vary hugely, is contradicting yourself.

you say you are one way, but i'm on the other end of the spectrum. i use controller and usually top in the parse of any party i'm in whether it is doing damage or the amount of healing done. what he said is that it's not drastically different, but the results will vary greatly and that is correct.

there's not a huge difference between a good keyboard/mouse user and a good controller user.

the results varying greatly is just as correct. a bad controller is by no means going to be anywhere near a good keyboard/mouse user and vise versa.

there will always be a big difference between a good player and a bad player. that's regardless if you are comparing 2 that use controller, 2 that use keyboard and mouse, 2 that use keyboard only, or any combination of them.

[ispano]

you say you are one way, but i'm on the other end of the spectrum. i use controller and usually top in the parse of any party i'm in whether it is doing damage or the amount of healing done. what he said is that it's not drastically different, but the results will vary greatly and that is correct.

there's not a huge difference between a good keyboard/mouse user and a good controller user.

the results varying greatly is just as correct. a bad controller is by no means going to be anywhere near a good keyboard/mouse user and vise versa.

there will always be a big difference between a good player and a bad player. that's regardless if you are comparing 2 that use controller, 2 that use keyboard and mouse, 2 that use keyboard only, or any combination of them.

And yet, if you compare the two interfaces on their own, without a person using it, one is clearly superior for a given job. That may sound odd to some since someone has to use it for it to do anything, however, outside of them being two different control methods, the only other real variable is the player. If you remove that variable and compare the two as they are, again, one will be superior for a given job. Period.

[Dzian]

Also, not to mention, while you're "tabbing" through targets to get the right one, with the default controller setup you're also not moving. If you change movement to the other stick, or targeting to a different button you can, but then you can't do something else while moving and targeting. I can..

I fail to see how selecting targets prevents me from moving or doing something else.
I can run to a given nuke spot target my chosen mob and have my selected spell ready to cast before I even get there, start casting as soon as i get there and have second wind ready to pop as if i'm the first to get my spell of i'm likely to take a few hits.

the idea that I can't move my character if i'm selecting a target or something is very very wrong.

if i needed to i could run over here, target something over there, swing the camera around on it, hit any action i wanted to do and do it all at the same time.

I would simply say, if you can't then you suck with gamepads which is really no different to how i suck with a mouse and keyboard. comes down to preference.

[ispano]

I fail to see how selecting targets prevents me from moving or doing something else.
I can run to a given nuke spot target my chosen mob and have my selected spell ready to cast before I even get there, start casting as soon as i get there and have second wind ready to pop as if i'm the first to get my spell of i'm likely to take a few hits.

the idea that I can't move my character if i'm selecting a target or something is very very wrong.

if i needed to i could run over here, target something over there, swing the camera around on it, hit any action i wanted to do and do it all at the same time.

I would simply say, if you can't then you suck with gamepads which is really no different to how i suck with a mouse and keyboard. comes down to preference.

My point was that you're limited to how much you can do at the same time with a gamepad, I know this because I use one for many many games. If moving and targeting are the left stick and the dpad, which they are by default, unless you have weird fingers, you're not doing both at the same time.

[Inkie]

My point was that you're limited to how much you can do at the same time with a gamepad, I know this because I use one for many many games. If moving and targeting are the left stick and the dpad, which they are by default, unless you have weird fingers, you're not doing both at the same time.

You do realize... there is a whole nother hand on that controller right...? I assume you have an itty bitty microscopic right thumb that can't reach the dpad? (And that's only if you happen to be using strictly default setups... which also could be your problem..)

[ispano]

You do realize... there is a whole nother hand on that controller right...? I assume you have an itty bitty microscopic right thumb that can't reach the dpad? (And that's only if you happen to be using strictly default setups... which also could be your problem..)

My problem? I can play just fine with the controller. I can play just fine with Keyboard/Mouse. Does my personal preference or skill automatically negate that one is better than the other? No. My point with the comment you replied to is that with a controller, you're more limited in what you can do at once. And obviously you can put targeting on the right side, and before a fight you can have the skill you want to use preselected. But in the middle of a fight if you have to move around your bars and buttons, move, AND target all at the same time, can you? Sure if you set up the controller just right you can in theory do it all, but a Mouse/KB will still do it better.

[Dzian]

My problem? I can play just fine with the controller. I can play just fine with Keyboard/Mouse. Does my personal preference or skill automatically negate that one is better than the other? No. My point with the comment you replied to is that with a controller, you're more limited in what you can do at once. And obviously you can put targeting on the right side, and before a fight you can have the skill you want to use preselected. But in the middle of a fight if you have to move around your bars and buttons, move, AND target all at the same time, can you? Sure if you set up the controller just right you can in theory do it all, but a Mouse/KB will still do it better.

so with a keyboard and mouse, can you move around your target using wasd or whatever the keys are by default, hit your abilities on 7890 numbers. click your targets with the mouse? fairly tricky without 3 hands, doing that i'd personally have my left hand on wasd my right hand on 7890 and my third hand on the mouse.... oh wait......

with a control pad i can do everything you asked at the same time. and thats using the default settings for an xbox pad alot more comfortably than trying to find 3 hands. your point that a keyboard and mouse is far superior is just so very wrong

[FerFox]

i use controller 100% of the time, only use keyboard for chat and when i want to walk instead of run. only thing i don't like about the controller is the targeting system.

[ispano]

so with a keyboard and mouse, can you move around your target using wasd or whatever the keys are by default, hit your abilities on 7890 numbers. click your targets with the mouse? fairly tricky without 3 hands, doing that i'd personally have my left hand on wasd my right hand on 7890 and my third hand on the mouse.... oh wait......

with a control pad i can do everything you asked at the same time. and thats using the default settings for an xbox pad alot more comfortably than trying to find 3 hands. your point that a keyboard and mouse is far superior is just so very wrong

I can actually, played FPS games and MMOs for 10 years, not to mention if I really wanted I could remap keys near WASD to those last few slots.

A keyboard/mouse IS far superior for the type of game this is and when the ui issues and such holding it back vanish in 2.0 it'll be even more pronounced. Compare the two on what they are and can do and not if you or someone else can use it well and it becomes apparent.