Game pad vs Keyboard

[ispano]

FFXIV still responds better to a Mouse Keyboard. Sure it's limited by the UI right now, but the difference is still there. Targetting with the keyboard? Sure, if you can have marks and a specific key to target said marks. Even in games with good tab targetting I can still target faster with a mouse. The mouse also gives you the ability to snap the camera around near instantly. Calling people who use a mouse nooby? My experience in the last 10 years is the opposite, with the phrase "Keyboard Turner" and such.

You can disagree all you want about a mouse being more accurate than keyboard, but snapping over and targetting something vs tabbing through a few targets to get to the one you want is no comparison. It's not even the statement I made originally, which was Mouse vs Thumbstick.

[Exn]

Keyboard/Mouse for anything important, like someone else said. I do have a controller when I DoH/DoL it up.

But to the nay sayers. Yes people have preferences. However, preferences never negate the fact that a Keyboard/Mouse setup is going to give you better control in FPS type games, or in MMOs where you could be doing multiple things at once.

In general Mice are better at quick accurate movement, at the expense of having a slight issue with longer distances. Gamepads deal better with the longer distances, but the movement is typically termed as "sloppy". The other point is that a Mouse is basically a 1:1 movement of your hand, a Gamepad Thumbstick reads a speed and a direction to move, so even using third party programs to boost the speed, it's still a sloppy movement in general.

Sorry, gotta call BS on this one. The mouse is "basically a 1:1 movement of your hand"... come on... then I'll just say the gamepad thumbstick is "basically a 1:1 movement of your thumb". Which one do you think we can flick faster?? Both read a speed and a direction to move, and both can be altered by adjusting the sensitivity. The sloppiness (especially in FPS) is due to your own settings or lack thereof, which takes us back to user error. Your preference is clearly the kb/m, that's fine. Leave it at that.. more opinionated unsupported rants claimed as "fact" is the last thing these forums need...

..owait

[ispano]

Have you ever looked at how a Mouse and Thumbstick actually read movement? They are not equal.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1309934/fp...stick-vs-mouse

So while yes, my preference is KB/Mouse, IT IS superior in a game of this design. More so in an FPS, but due to how Most MMOs play, they're very similar to an FPS. I won't knock people for wanting to use one or the other, or for wanting to click skills or keyboard turn. However, one is clearly better than the other for any given task.

[Leyza]

I use a keyboard and mouse. For some reason, my PS2 controller is bugged when playing this game and will either quit working, or make me run endlessly and not let me stop my character. Then the targeting... *shudders*

[Ramsey]

The difference in performance is almost negligible between a keyboard and a controller right now. Due to the lag time and casting time of actions, you can have your next target lined up by the time your previous action is finished easily, even with a controller.

I have no issues tanking with a controller, though mastering the targeting system is very counter-intuitive. Once you've figured it out though, there's nothing you can't target, just requires a combination of rotating your camera so what you want to target is the next target relative to you on the X axis.

Due to cast time on heals as well, it's also perfectly easy to heal with a controller as well.

Will this change in 2.0? I don't know, I seriously hope not, because one thing I really enjoy about XIV now, is that my actions feel more deliberate, my character feels like he actually has weight. In most MMOs my character ends up feeling weightless, and my abilities feel spammy.

I'm not for deliberately making the game cumbersome to level the playing field, but if actions are more deliberate, and timing more important than spamming, the playing field will be level on its own.

I'm most curious if we're going to be able to access the PS3 UI on the PC version, I would really hate to be forced to play the PC version with a keyboard (though obviously for sanity's sake it ought to be the default.) I'm also hoping we'll be able to enable controller components piecemeal, because inventory management, let's face it, is way better with a mouse and keyboard.

[Exn]

Have you ever looked at how a Mouse and Thumbstick actually read movement? They are not equal.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1309934/fp...stick-vs-mouse

So while yes, my preference is KB/Mouse, IT IS superior in a game of this design. More so in an FPS, but due to how Most MMOs play, they're very similar to an FPS. I won't knock people for wanting to use one or the other, or for wanting to click skills or keyboard turn. However, one is clearly better than the other for any given task.

Yes I, and I'm sure many others have long read the MNC dev's theories on the differences between mouse and analog control from Penny Arcade. Rarely used in argument though because it clearly bias towards their game.. and obviously not all (or any) of the analog mechanics used in MNC are used most FPS, and definitely not in RPG.. I never claimed mouse and thumbstick read movement the same, I guess you misunderstood that part. I was saying if you can claim the mouse moves seamlessly with your hand (I didn't assume you meant a literal 1:1 relationship.. otherwise you'd need a rather large mousepad..) I can say the same for the analog and thumb. Adjusting sensitivity and the axes allows you to go even beyond that so speed of camera movement is never an issue, ESPECIALLY compared to standard setting on a mouse. In most FPS, mouse has always been a quicker and far easier method of targeting (not camera movement, targeting), but that doesn't take away from the fact that there is an undeniable difference in skill across controller/gamepad players, and that the skilled among them have no problem not only keeping up with.. but straight murdalizing their skilled kb/m counterparts.

[ispano]

So I can near instantly move the mouse to target something out of a group, can near instantly zip around 180 degrees and target something inside of another group. Something a Thumbstick cannot do mind you, you have to to first change the speed the system moves at for stick movement, which nearly increases the speed of all stick positions. Where with a controller, you have nearly whatever speed you wish just by changing how fast you move the mouse. Then you have to target a mob in the middle of said mob by, in the case of FFXIV, using the DPad(Or whatever you chose to bind it too) potentially taking your finger off the stick, whereas the mouse user can move over and be ready for the next target. Now you finally have the target, you have to use a given skill, which depending on where it is could take several more presses. With how I have my Mouse thumb buttons set up, any given skill takes no more than 3 presses to do, third one being confirmation for spells if I have that option on. For targeting in a visual world, the mouse is going to be superior.

[Dzian]

So I can near instantly move the mouse to target something out of a group, can near instantly zip around 180 degrees and target something inside of another group. Something a Thumbstick cannot do mind you, you have to to first change the speed the system moves at for stick movement, which nearly increases the speed of all stick positions. Where with a controller, you have nearly whatever speed you wish just by changing how fast you move the mouse. Then you have to target a mob in the middle of said mob by, in the case of FFXIV, using the DPad(Or whatever you chose to bind it too) potentially taking your finger off the stick, whereas the mouse user can move over and be ready for the next target. Now you finally have the target, you have to use a given skill, which depending on where it is could take several more presses. With how I have my Mouse thumb buttons set up, any given skill takes no more than 3 presses to do, third one being confirmation for spells if I have that option on. For targeting in a visual world, the mouse is going to be superior.

Most of that doesnt make much sense but in my case I can target what i want, hit the spell i want in 3 or 4 button presses given that i have macros on triggers. in av for example group stop at your kill spot target your mob usually involves pressing left or right once or twice if you target one thet dies fast hit your trigger and press your macro.

while a mouse has a sense of precision in the mass pull fests this game has trying to click the mob in the middle with the most hp with a mouse is rather hard to do personally. with a pad i can just hit left or rightt ill i find one with high enough hp to survive my casting time.

the differences between pad vs mouse/keyboard aren't dramatically different. and vary hugely. you'll never see evidence that gamepad monks regularly out perform mouse keyboards monks or vice versa

[Felis]

In the V1 I use a gamepad. Need to test what is best for me in V2 ^^

I use just a keyboard. I have changed most of my settings to allow it to control as near to FFXI's full keyboard controls as I can make it, but there are still a few failings. Mainly in the horrendous action bar taking priority control over the arrow keys when you are in combat. I really wish the action bar controls were separate from the menu controls in the config menu. Also would like to see the return of the <stpt> macro option they added shortly before abyssea.

You can change the "action bar up/down" keys in the keyboard config.
And <stpc> should be ingame since some patches.

[Cynthis]

I would never play with a mouse keyboard just from an ergonomic standpoint. I have seen way too many people get problems with back and shoulders just from the typing they do at work, and I also do far too much of that, to ever sit and use mouse and keyboard all evening at home.