I wouldn't mind FFXIV becoming a WoW clone in the casual/hardcore appeal if...

[Mintyflo]

Why in the world would SE have released a constant stream of content when people could barely complete the content they did release? FFXI's biggest plus was that when they did actually release knew content, it didn't instantly make all your previous gear and achievements completely useless. Something you will never get from a WoW clone.

Woooah I agreed with you until this point. XI was horrible with releasing new and better things with large patches in fact they still are. But then again I mean that kind of just goes with the turf. New content = new and better things.
Also very very very few things weren't beat within the first few weeks. This is only because of A) It was either so dumb hard it was almost pointless to attempt B) Horrible... Horrible time sinks. Making me wait till JP midnight for a 20second cs {No Thanks}.

Honestly I still can't figure out why people are always calling something a "WoW" clone when XI was a clone of something else. You can't compare two "clones" if you will and get mad because one copies something you don't like. It's mind blowing reading peoples arguments on the subject.

I just really want someone to point out something new and fresh in the MMO market. Everything copies something is more my point. The OP has a point it's not bad if it does it right. XIV gave something new and different.. People didn't like it. So they are going with something old and trusted. How is this a bad thing?

[Byakko]

The only endgame content XI ever had was Salvage and even that wasn't hard, but it was a fun time-attack raid.

DL: Easy, fuck you moves

Kirin/Sky: Easy, burnable @75 - had somewhat preventable fuck you moves outside of AF

JoL/Sea: Easy

Ground Kings: The only one of things I couldn't fall asleep for was Nidhogg. The potential for the mob to choose to do Hurricane Wing 8x in a row for 1/3-2/5 of every players HP could make it more interesting than normal.

CoP/ToAU Kings: Easy, Tiamat being the only one I never tanked on MNK or SAM but completely possible to do so. NIN/DRK and RDM were good tanks for it though (read: easy).

Limbus: lol

Salvage/Nyzul Isle: easy

Einherjar: Crowd control crazyness, unknown and unscaled randomized difficulty when entering each chamber, random mob to reduce 1/3 random stats, etc. Just a lot of things that could make your run go wrong, not to mention crowd control in a game where your only reliable sleep was resisted by half the chambers at the time. All in all though, Odin's Chamber was pretty good fun at 75cap.

Zeni NM: Terrible, but easy. Most of these were being solo'd at the time.

VNM: Terrible, but easy.

WoTG Kings: Interesting pop conditions, but easy.

Beastmen king BCNMs: these were actually a bit of a challenge, unlike their KSNM cousins



All of these were steamrolled (by people posting in this thread) within days of spawn mechanics, etc, being figured out. The only that that artificially lengthened a "world first" type kill on any of these is a lot of them having unknown spawn mechanics/pop items that we had to figure out just to enjoy because SE was too lazy to release a continued stream of content. Instead, we got mystery box spawn systems and RNG drops.

The fact that you're referring to a time when MNK or SAM or RDM could be considered a viable tank for Tiamat just shows that you probably didn't even play until at least 4 years after release. Even the XI fans acknowledge some aspects of the game had started to go easymode as early as ToAU. From what I'm reading it seems like most of the people criticizing XI started playing at the same time you did. Both games have gotten significantly easier with time, so you can't compare new XI to old WoW and vice versa.

You saw a higher % of people completing wow end game, because obviously you are bad at math..... A game with 10-12 million people vs a game with 500K.... Now think about it....

Are you serious? I said a higher % of max level players, not total number. Do you know what a percentage is? If one NBA player is shooting 45% FGs on 1000 attempts, and another is shooting 30% on 500 attempts, is the first player's % higher because he shot more? No, hes just performing better. Population has nothing to do with the rate if its a large enough sample size, obviously you are bad at math.

We can argue forever which was more challenging, but at least it seems like everyone wants challenging content, and thats a great thing.

[Zumi]

FFXI eventually went easy mode all the way. In abyssea something was too hard you could use a Primeval Brew gives you god mode for 3 min, 999 to all stats, huge hp/mp regen, and 50 tp per tick.

Here is a video back at the 95 cap http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=im5QBh564pA

At first I thought this was kind of a dumb idea. But now I am like yea brews are such a time saver. Especially when doing empyrean weapons and you have to get 50, 50, then 75 drops from NMs in abyssea.

Then we have Voidwatch which went pay gil to get easy mode. You could buy Phase displacer for 100k each which made any VW NM really weak. Even ones that people wiped on a bunch such as Rex.

Now that I think about it SE did it the right way after stuff been out awhile they should add an easy mode to it. If I am having to farm old content for empyrean weapons for example there should be a way to speed it up and I am glad there is. Killing 12 Apademak in a row super fast with a brew was such a time saver.

[XxOstiaxX]

The fact that you're referring to a time when MNK or SAM or RDM could be considered a viable tank for Tiamat just shows that you probably didn't even play until at least 4 years after release. Even the XI fans acknowledge some aspects of the game had started to go easymode as early as ToAU. From what I'm reading it seems like most of the people criticizing XI started playing at the same time you did. Both games have gotten significantly easier with time, so you can't compare new XI to old WoW and vice versa.



Are you serious? I said a higher % of max level players, not total number. Do you know what a percentage is? If one NBA player is shooting 45% FGs on 1000 attempts, and another is shooting 30% on 500 attempts, is the first player's % higher because he shot more? No, hes just performing better. Population has nothing to do with the rate if its a large enough sample size, obviously you are bad at math.

We can argue forever which was more challenging, but at least it seems like everyone wants challenging content, and thats a great thing.

Let's say for arguments sake that only 1% of both XI and WOW population where really tackling and clearing end game content....

1% of 500,000 = 5000 1% of 12,000,000 = 120000 WOW has 2,400 times the number of players that XI has doing end game content..... Wich of the two do you think will clear content quicker ?

It is not that WOW hardmodes where easier than XI, it is that WOW had 2,400 times the ammount of players just at endgame alone competing to clear said content, while in all of XI you only had 5000.... Also take into account that wow dint roadblock content with stupid timers and old gimmicks like "Go to X get Y item in order to pop C boss, then beat him and have a 1% chance to get a dropped item, in order to unlock Z Boss"

[Dawiichan]

"Go to X get Y item in order to pop C boss, then beat him and have a 1% chance to get a dropped item, in order to unlock Z Boss"

I don't know what game you played, but most items were no where near that low of a drop rate.

[Byakko]

Let's say for arguments sake that only 1% of both XI and WOW population where really tackling and clearing end game content....

1% of 500,000 = 5000 1% of 12,000,000 = 120000 WOW has 2,400 times the number of players that XI has doing end game content..... Wich of the two do you think will clear content quicker ?

It is not that WOW hardmodes where easier than XI, it is that WOW had 2,400 times the ammount of players just at endgame alone competing to clear said content, while in all of XI you only had 5000.... Also take into account that wow dint roadblock content with stupid timers and old gimmicks like "Go to X get Y item in order to pop C boss, then beat him and have a 1% chance to get a dropped item, in order to unlock Z Boss"

I understand what you're saying. I think you're right that there would be a small amount of fringe groups in WoW who may have cleared content faster initially because there were far more players. I wasn't talking about the race to clear content among a few groups though. I think I explained it poorly. Lets say some content is released in both games. Immediately you might have it cleared faster in WoW by some hardcore guilds when you take into account all realms, but I found that after six months time even the lower tier guilds would clear the hardest content in WoW, while in XI there was a much smaller % that did, and a lot of people struggled for far longer. Yeah some of it was roadblocks, but some of it was just unbeatable for people until it was nerfed. Again this is just my opinion based on my own experiences. I'm not basing this on the two games populations as a whole either. The WoW realm I played on was similar in size to the XI server I was on.

[kazaran]

I cna understand debates. But no offense, wow is not a hardcore mmo in any way. I did enjoy wow, but it was the game it chose for a break from serious gaming. It didn't take long to max yoru chracters, get top raid gear, stack on addtional effects, and work on the next one.

FFXI was one of the more unique MMO's I have played with it different interfaces, style, and better story elements. Makinf FFXI more like wow, would ruin it, and why should we settle for more of the same mediocre play. I would play rift more before WOW anyway.

Many couldn't stick through FFXI because it took serious effort. It took working together without being rude and sacastic. IT required more team work and maturity and that is probably why it apealed to the more mature crowds.

Wow wasn't easier due to population, since you still ahd the same party structure regardless in instances. It was just a more simplified game all together.

[dragorian]

ok i have to put my input in for the last time before they lock this thread FINIAL FANTASY 11, 14 VS. W.O.W LET THIS SKIRMISH BEGIN GO.

[TimonLoon]

ITT people that have never done endgame outside of XI talking about difficulty.

[Priya]

Pretty sure most people are comparing the Golden Ages of both games, which is a pretty fair comparison: CoP vs. BC + Ulduar (because it's a special case raid).

EDIT: I am referring to the posts that say WoW's end game content isn't /faceroll. CoP wasn't necessarily faceroll either, but it was much more so than WoW's BC/Ulduar end game.

If FFXIV can give me a clean, configurable UI (Even WoW's base UI is terribad), including full control of my keybinds (I want to use shift, not control, and I want to bind things to letters kthx), along with RoZ/CoP's story delivery and the epic/beautiful fights/raids/zones from BOTH XI and WoW, I shall be very well pleased. Questing vs. grinding is whatever to me (I just know I hate leves... you shouldn't have to go back to town until you're done with the zone you're in or done leveling for the day. Going back to town for leves in XIV is like going back to town in WoW to train except it has more direct control over your XP).

I'll be pretty upset if all of XIV's fights in ARR take place in BCNM circular type spaces. I don't mind instanced, but I do like large elaborate areas (see pretty much any WoW raid from BC and WotLK for examples (the zones NOT the bosses), except ToC and one boss raids-- However, I did like Malygos's zone).