2.0 Armoury System & Multiple Jobs? Concerns

[Mort]

I agree with OP side. Altough i dont really hate the class system, im leaning more to the side of only having one job.

I want to bring up "Weapons being your class", most of us know that in the JP version this is more obvious, as the class names refers more to the weapon they use.

I think its going to get very unorganized and ugly if they consider either of these options:

1. Make classes being able to wield more then one weapon (ie. gladiators being able to use 1-h and 2-h swords).
This will both destroy the purpose of classes from the start and also it will reduce the amount of classes to level.

2. Make one class for each weapon.
This will destroy the purpose of jobs branching out of classes, I dont see a point in only having one job per class, or some
classes having multiple jobs and some only one, it doesnt look good.

Instead, why cant we just have like OP proposed.A regular job system, where each job can have a set of weapons.
There will be room for alot of jobs to level up, each unique, a new experience, I dont mind having the sub job system too, or something simelar, it was very good.

I know this is how FFXI works. I do not want a copy of that game, iv played it alot, it grown on me, and it has faded. All tough i have alot of found memorys, i want a new experience. I do not belive using a simelar job system would make this a copy. I dont want jobs to be a straight copy from how they were in FFXI. This is FFXIV, the combat wont even be close to what it was in FFXI.

[Arcell]

As far as jobs not being diverse, we're only at 50. Yes if two jobs share the same base class they will share the class skills but as the level cap raises we will get more job skills as well. These will further diversify jobs from each other.

True we'll also get more class skills but that's because classes aren't meant to be 100% obsolete so they need to have some way to keep up.

[Shurrikhan]

Instead, why cant we just have like OP proposed. A regular job system, where each job can have a set of weapons.

There will be room for alot of jobs to level up, each unique, a new experience, I dont mind having the sub job system too, or something similar, it was very good.

I think the main potential benefit of the armory system is to do sort of the inverse of the sub-job system. Instead, you pursue multiple paths, find something to connect those lines to a fine and deadly point of its own style, those being the jobs. The problem is that the way abilities are formed and given doesn't really reflect that.

As I mentioned here ( http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Knights/page2 ) I think the main solution is to slightly decouple jobs and classes, either making it so that the total level among a set of classes and a minimum level on the highest of them is needed to start the class. Jobs could choose from among a larger bank of abilities that would hybridize well with the job, and have a few more job-specific abilities than they do now. In this way they feel less like the next generation of a "mere" class, and more like something separate. Either that or, taking it much further but likely to great result, revamp the style and methodology for how abilities are learned to the point that jobs seem like a matter of experimentation (while leveling), and then finally inspiration -- into a real, unquestioned job.

This middle area of experimentation could even be what creates Rangers vs. Musketeers or Fencers vs. Samurai, even if without rigid parameters, which can be later adapted into further jobs.

[Shurrikhan]

True we'll also get more class skills but that's because classes aren't meant to be 100% obsolete so they need to have some way to keep up.

I hope that stays the case. I'd really like to have some situations where I'd be using Pugilist instead of Monk, hopefully without Pugilist feeling only like a watered down version of the same thing. The amount of cross-class skills retained with base classes should have a more noticeable and... kinda stylish bonus as the jobs progress further after level cap.

[Kafeen]

I dont see a point in only having one job per class, or some classes having multiple jobs and some only one, it doesnt look good.

This is something I meant to comment on too. Having multiple jobs to a single class is going to add a lot more work for SE. If they want to add another job, either they unbalance one (or a few) classes to add a new job or two or they keep the number of jobs per class equal and give themselves a lot more work balancing 7 (or more) new jobs at a time.

[Jennestia]

they may completely revamp the entire class traits, and also add job traits when you switch into one as well. we are missing job traits after all.

There's already 'dual trait' gear in FFXI e.g "In Assaults: In controlled areas: Under (Insert) Weather:, While (Debuff):, so I wouldn't be surprised to see something like that with class traits, but a lot of recent german rep responses pretty much paints a bleak picture -- there's a lot they want to do but can't due to the armory system restrictions.

[DeadRiser]

I'm sorry but if Dark knight does come off of gladiator I'll be pissed.

I do not want to have jobs max level when I obtain them.

In my honest opinion, they should just get rid of classes. While it's nice that we can cross class skills, the majority of the time every class ends up with a specific set of skills from another class. They could simply let jobs borrow the same set of class skills from each one that we can now and call it a deal.

If they stem multiple jobs off one class, they are just going to make it that much harder on themselves to figure out something that makes sense. I'll give them the biggest "thank you" if they can get it right, just let us level jobs separately :/

[Vindrax]

Ok I'm just spit balling here... but how about something like this:

Let's say you are trying to unlock/level WHM. You get your CNJ to level 30, GLD to level 15 and that unlocks the WHM job for you. This starts you back at level 1 WHM where you get a select number of skills from CNJ and GLD (making up a number here), say one skill for every five levels in the primary class. A level 1 WHM, might know Stone, Cure, etc... up to level 30. If you continued to level your CNJ, you would unlock an additional skill for your WHM every five levels up to level 50. That would make your CNJ spell list vastly different from those of WHM since you would only be picking up one skill/spell every five levels. Then while leveling WHM, you unlock additional specific skills for your WHM job (Regen, etc...) every "five" levels. So while a level 50 WHM and lvel 50 CNJ would have ~10 of the same spells, a WHM would have ~10 unique spells that would make them play drastically different.

Then if Summoner was to level up based off of CNJ as well, it may grab a different (with maybe some overlap) spells from CNJ but then have its own unique set as well.

[Skies]

I'm just going to state that you all underestimate the value that one or maybe two abilities can have on a job.
With Dark Knight coming off of Gladiator (what I doubt, i'm pretty sure it's most likely to come off of Lancer due to ability synergy) a single Darkness ability that sets up a 'buff' on you that eats your HP every time you attack but grants you a massive damage boost, even bigger than Power Surge III, would pretty much set you on the DD path and away from the tank path.
That alone, given that the HP price is big enough, would make so that your shield skills are really only nescessary to save your vastly variable HP pool, and you'd really want more to stay out of the enemy's way as you kill yourself faster than the enemy does.

Of course, that is just one example.

[ShivenCasull]

I'm just going to state that you all underestimate the value that one or maybe two abilities can have on a job.
With Dark Knight coming off of Gladiator (what I doubt, i'm pretty sure it's most likely to come off of Lancer due to ability synergy) a single Darkness ability that sets up a 'buff' on you that eats your HP every time you attack but grants you a massive damage boost, even bigger than Power Surge III, would pretty much set you on the DD path and away from the tank path.
That alone, given that the HP price is big enough, would make so that your shield skills are really only nescessary to save your vastly variable HP pool, and you'd really want more to stay out of the enemy's way as you kill yourself faster than the enemy does.

Of course, that is just one example.

Of course, but people will get annoyed by having useless abilities. Not to mention it would create confusion for some players.

Every post I've seen complimenting the system we have now only mentions the ability to swap jobs on one character anywhere. SE has some room to work with the job system, so long as they keep the above two options.