Will DRG and PLD still be next to useless in 2.0?

[Req]

^ This lol.

While I agree with a large portion of what you said I have to dissagree with this. I've always found WAR to be superior during moogles, even more so since they droped the TP cost on WW.
The only fights I can think of off hand that matter where PLD seems to be prefered are Ifrit Extreme and 17 min speed run Chimera.

Yeah but it took the people in your DRG video 3 min it takes the people in my BLM video only 2.

Why bother killing the clones imo, just burn the boss.

I've done them hunderades of times too, based on our XIVpads profiles we seem pretty on par with eachother. So it's not like I'm not equally informed.

Um, because you have to kill all the clones because they will one shot the party if you don't? And you are kind of missing the big picture. We beat the instance just as fast as the people in your video did, with someone disconnecting. I would also like to point out that our marshall dies only 10 seconds behind the people using the black mage method, and this is one of our slower runs.

[Molly_Millions]

Really guys? IMO class balance is right about where it should be. Every class seems to have certain encounters where it excels over another class.

[Madrox]

Yep, doing things the easy way is for stupid people.
I cut trees down with a fish because using a chainsaw is stupid.

Stupid people just don't understand, I feel bad for you.

I use melee DD for efficient and even better survivability at times. Does thinking outside the box hurt?

[Mijin]

All that was said above against the blindness of the OP, plus the fact that Speed Runs will only be for Achievement Hunters means this entire argument is irrelevant.

Well Speed runs are used to get Darklight gear and also used for getting relic if you didn't know.

not sure whom you have been talking to but they are beyond idiots.
probably this guy.

Well based on your achievements I've been talking to people who have experience than you.

Lmao, case closed. I hope you realize how clueless you are now talking about stuff you never encounter before.

Well case back opened because regarsless of the case that I obviously have encountered. You're trying to make me sound incorrect by stating that the possible is impossible, scroll to the end of this vid and see for yourself: Flawless Garuda Win

You need to come up with a new approach to attacking me because you loose every time at this "I know something you don't" thing.

[Chardrizard]

Well case back opened because regarsless of the case that I obviously have encountered. You're trying to make me sound incorrect by stating that the possible is impossible, scroll to the end of this vid and see for yourself: Flawless Garuda Win

You need to come up with a new approach to attacking me because you loose every time at this "I know something you don't" thing.

Go to 4min, they are killing first sets of clones which every single groups will need to kill regardless, you can only burn garuda down if her health is low enough for you to kill her before clones obilirate entire party.

Do you see the difference now between people that experience the fight before and people that only watch discovery channel and claims they knows science?

[REDace0]

- Cannot block WS but you can parry them. WAR wins.
- Cannot mitigate incoming damage from enemy weapon skills, but WAR can with Feather Foot and Foresight.

This is actually false, isn't it? I'm pretty sure I've used Divine Veil and Aegis Boon to reduce or eliminate damage from WS. I've even heard of people using Aegis Boon to nullify 100-Tonze Swing, but I haven't tried that myself.

I think it has to be, because without blocking PLD should be taking much more damage than WAR, but in my experience as WHM it's always the opposite. WAR needs more cures. You can even leave a PLD completely on their own for 30s or so and if they have Hallowed Ground available they'll be fine.

[Mijin]

you can only burn garuda down if her health is low enough for you to kill her before clones obilirate entire party.

That's what we were talking about. He was saying you needed a DRG to kill the clones fast enough I was saying you don't and that they can be later ignored altogether with blms in the party because garuda will be low enough before they respawn.

[Onisake]

Right now i've been noticing that Skill > Gear > Class

That being said I've seen far more skilled WARs than PLDs and I've seen far more skilled MNKs than DRGs

I have a group I almost always play with. Myself on MNK and I have a DRG buddy who recently hit 50. Neither of us are geared incredibly well (both rocking AF for the moment) and he also has PLD.

Using Dues ex Machina as a comparison: when he went PLD he could not keep hate off my MNK. When he went DRG he could consistently pull hate when he wanted to.

I believe DRG/MNK are comparible, and it really depends on the skill of the player. I am far more familiar with MNK than he with DRG so my damage is slightly better right now as i'm more effecient with my combos.


But looking at PLD vs WAR I see one major problem that has various side effects. Damage = hate right now. You cannot get around this. the more damage you are doing on either class the more enmity you generate.

But being a tank you must balance enmity generation with survivibility. great defense is useless if you don't keep hate. and you're no good to the group dead.

Looking at PLD and WAR, both need STR for damage. WAR needs VIT as a secondary (plays a big role in defense, effects HP and damage floor) and PLD needs MND (plays no role in defense). and i know the role of VIT is minor compared to dLVL, but it still has an effect.

a WAR can essentially stack STR/VIT and go for defense/HP and be well geared to tank anything. VIT also adds HP so they will naturally have better survivibility. throw some +enmity /acc and you're a BAMF WAR.

PLD, on the other hand, must gear STR/MND for damage. but must also look at trying to fit VIT/HP/Defense and in some cases DEX for shield blocks. enmity is not needed as much due to the modifiers from MND on abilities. but PLD sorely lacks acc and must try to balance far more stats to stay viable. all of the really good PLD I've seen have capped stats and very effecient use of abilities and go for damage over defense.

I personally think PLDs primary stats should be VIT and PIE, not STR/MND. WAR i believe is fine as STR/VIT but PLD takes a serious hit when it gets no damage from a defensive stat like WAR does. if SE wants PLD to be the defacto tank than either the formulas need to change or PLD needs a major boost to its abilities. I personally think it's easier to switch it to VIT/PIE. However this may become extremely problematic in PvP, as this would make PLD monstrous. PLD could switch to STR/PIE and make it more of a magical tank and WAR a more physical tank. but then DRG would need to switch to STR/??? so there is no overlap.

TL;DR: WAR only needs to focus on primary stat caps and some secondary tanking stats. PLD has to balance primary stat caps against defense stats. PLD is more difficult to gear, so a PLD's skill level must be far greater to compare to an equally geared WAR to edge up.

[Req]

For someone that is bitching about how other jobs are useless compared to others you sure are doing your damndest to defend the jobs that are more used no matter what evidence is presented to you showing these "niche jobs" are not niche at all and are incredibly viable if not superior in many situations.

[Dawiichan]

PLD is currently complete and utter trash when compared to WAR for the following reason.

- Cannot block WS but you can parry them. WAR wins.
That's with Foresight. If you parry without foresight, PLDs have much better potential on mitigating dmg. PLD have aegis boon, which not only mitigates damage completely, but can also heal.
- Cannot mitigate incoming damage from enemy weapon skills, but WAR can with Feather Foot and Foresight.
If you can evade it with Foresight and Feather Foot, PLD can block it with divine veil and Aegis Boon. This doesn't make any sense.
- Blocking does not reduce anywhere near as much damage as parrying. WAR wins.
Blocking can actually reduce more, since you know, you can increase the amount you block unlike parrying. You can also block more than you can parry so you reduce even more there.
- WAR does more damage than PLD. More damage/more hate. WAR wins.
PLD can keep hate other ways. Those ways letting the WHM have it easier. Not only that but the difference in single target damage between a PLD and a WAR isn't really that far off. So in fight like Miser where you don't need a WHM, PLD can get a big chunk of hate just by healing.
- WAR has AoE damage. PLD does not (good bye Circle Slash). WAR wins.
First real upside to it so far that is currently in game that war has.
- Not many moves that reduce/virtually nullify attacks. Aegis Boon vs. Feather Foot/Foresight. WAR wins.
What? You must not do much content, cause every whm will tell you that a PLD was easier to heal than a WAR. Divine Veil can be up 1/3 of the time, and aegis boon can be used in between. They also have a stronger version of sentinel than WAR's and can also heal themselves/others.
- On a straight hit... An equally well equipped WAR takes less damage than a PLD. WAR wins.
Best thing I've read so far. This completely depends on the hit since a PLD can probably mitigate something like Ifrit's 1k hit auto attacks way more than a WAR.
- PLD HP is still far lower than WAR. A PLD needs to gear hard on HP while a WAR can just focus on damage and Enmity. WAR wins.
PLD doesn't need to gear hard on HP whatsoever. Any PLD that you've seen doing this is definitely doing it wrong.
- PLD has AoE flash to get hate on multiple targets. Makes kiting Moogles easier. WAR needs to rely on having TP and Collusion -> Flare. PLD wins.
- PLD can cure itself. WAR can also cure itself except it doesn't need MP (Rampage/Second Wind/Bloodbath). WAR wins.
PLD can use Bloodbath and can heal more consistently than a WAR. Pretty sure War doesn't win when it comes to healing. Specially when you parse ifrit extreme, and you notice how much healing a PLD can actually do.

The only encounter in the game where PLD is better is Moogle Mog. And even that's arguable. PLD is in need of some serious buffs going into 2.0. The main problem with PLD is that it excels at virtually nothing. For almost every situation; WAR is better and deals more damage.

DRG... Is currently 2nd on single target DPS behind PUG. I personally think they're fine. But if I had to nitpick... they have low durability due to their low HP and only cure being Second Wind. Life Surge doesn't count because there's very little to no reason to use it over Power Surge.

Where did you even get this information? By the way, It's definitely safe to say that for DRG's lack of single target damage compared to MNK, they definitely make up for it in their AoE damage.