60fps cap for 2.0?

[Syris]

unthrottled render loop is nice,



for burning out pc components

120 isn't for frame rate, its for 3d

Eh, I didn't buy a true 120hz monitor for 3D.

If FFXIV burns up a PC that's SE fault. Bad optimization. Yes, the 60 fps cap and 30 fps cap were placed to prevent this from happening since beta, but that was because the original engine and overall server design stunk. The developers have already admitted to this. It's no secret.

I mean, FFXIV graphics are nice and all... but they aren't that nice. It's terrible optimization bringing your computer to its knees. Like you said, rendering objects far above and below what you even see on your screen hogging up resources pointlessly. I turn on ambient occlusion and I run FFXIV at 2 fps. I run BF3 on ultra with no problems. 50-90 fps and temps no higher than 55 degrees Celsius. Even on my gtx 460 768mb I could run far more demanding games than FFXIV well into 60+ fps (medium-high settings) under 60 degrees Celsius. It's not like we need an fps limit for other games on the market that are way more demanding than FFXIV (DX11 games). Why aren't those games frying machines?

The new engine that they are working on is supposed to alleviate these issues. If they need to cap your fps at 60 in order to prevent your computer from melting then they are simply putting a bandaid on a horrible mess of an engine to begin with. This is why they are building a new engine from the ground up for 2.0. We are playing on PC, not consoles. I expect to see fps cap on consoles simply because there is no work around for those systems. You are playing with what you have on a PS3. No upgrades and everyones machine is the same. But when it comes to PC, there are going to be a wide variety of set up's which means there should be a wide variety of graphical options for both lower end and higher end machines. Lower end machines can crank the graphics down to maintain playable frames, while higher end machines can crank up the graphics to make use of the hardware.

[Dragon]

At the end of the day, there's no reason to enforce an FPS cap. PERIOD!

Just wondering (im in no way knowledgeable in this), but would we even SEE the difference?
I heard somewhere that its the 30 FPS (I think) that is the mark where we no longer can tell the difference.

But if they can, hell why not...

The average person can see up to the equivalent of 60FPS, and even someone with as bad eyesight as me can often notice the difference between the equivalent of 60FPS and 90FPS. The ONLY reason why people have not noticed the differences until recently is because SDTV (esp. analog) sets never worked beyond maybe an equivalent of 35~40FPS. Period. (Not to mention, everything American film - until Avatar I think it was - was filmed with a 24.9~29.9 FPS rate.)

[Lux_Rayna]

At the end of the day, there's no reason to enforce an FPS cap. PERIOD!

Maybe not, but you'd have to be rich or stupid not to put an fps cap on any game you're playing. Your computer has a limit as to how much fps it can keep up with consistently. Any drops in fps will be very noticeable, even at 120+. Smoothness is a function of consistency, not necessarily how high the fps count is. If you don't put a cap, your gameplay will suffer terribly due to the constant spikes in fps. Ideally you want a level your computer can run with without dropping significantly. Any higher and it will actually appear worse.

Of course if you're running a supercomputer you don't need a cap for any game out right now. But enforcing a cap prevents fps noobs from experiencing crappy gameplay due to bad game settings. Most ppl assume more fps = good, when it's only good if your computer can stay up there consistently. And given that the vast majority of computer owners are ignorant about their hardware, an fps cap keeps ppl from being dissatisfied with your product. It's all about the benjamins.


EDIT: This isn't even talking about how much optimization a game would have to go through in order to account for lack of an fps cap. I imagine getting any game to run 120+fps without any significant drops would be quite costly in terms of hardware, equipment, and man hours. Especially with an MMO, which has to account for mass amounts of people congested into relatively small maps. I don't think any company is going to drop that kind of coin without charging you more for the game. And i'd rather not pay for that, considering I can't even use it.

[Dragon]

Maybe not, but you'd have to be rich or stupid not to put an fps cap on any game you're playing. Your computer has a limit as to how much fps it can keep up with consistently. Any drops in fps will be very noticeable, even at 120+. Smoothness is a function of consistency, not necessarily how high the fps count is. If you don't put a cap, your gameplay will suffer terribly due to the constant spikes in fps. Ideally you want a level your computer can run with without dropping significantly. Any higher and it will actually appear worse.

Of course if you're running a supercomputer you don't need a cap for any game out right now. But enforcing a cap prevents fps noobs from experiencing crappy gameplay due to bad game settings. Most ppl assume more fps = good, when it's only good if your computer can stay up there consistently. And given that the vast majority of computer owners are ignorant about their hardware, an fps cap keeps ppl from being dissatisfied with your product. It's all about the benjamins.


EDIT: This isn't even talking about how much optimization a game would have to go through in order to account for lack of an fps cap. I imagine getting any game to run 120+fps without any significant drops would be quite costly in terms of hardware, equipment, and man hours. Especially with an MMO, which has to account for mass amounts of people congested into relatively small maps. I don't think any company is going to drop that kind of coin without charging you more for the game. And i'd rather not pay for that, considering I can't even use it.

If a person's computer cannot run a game in 1080p past 60FPS, an enforced FPS cap is still useless. There is nothing in game code that can force a video card to run a game at an FPS higher than what it can run to begin with and the lack of an FPS cap isn't going to cause a game to run more than what the video card can handle. It simply does not happen, period.

Now, if people want an option to turn on an FPS cap, that's different. But don't you dare try to sit there and tell me that I should not be allowed to run it above xyzFPS just because someone else can't. That's absolutely stupid, and not to mention that because of fail-safe software & hardware design, it's actually impossible for the average user to burn their video card (it takes someone that knows how to bypass certain coding).

FYI, I do use a 60FPS cap on all games I play on my PC when and where there is a choice to. Even when emulating old games, unless I want to play in turbo-mode, I use no more than 60FPS.

[Lux_Rayna]

If a person's computer cannot run a game in 1080p past 60FPS, an enforced FPS cap is still useless. There is nothing in game code that can force a video card to run a game at an FPS higher than what it can run to begin with and the lack of an FPS cap isn't going to cause a game to run more than what the video card can handle. It simply does not happen, period.

I'm not talking about "handle", i'm talking about consistency. Handling 60 fps is a lot different than running a smooth 60 fps. For example, you can probably run higher than 60 fps, but you optionally choose to cap it at 60...because you know you can run it silky smooth at that cap. The average person would have no idea. An FPS cap just prevents the average person from becoming dissatisfied with gameplay due to poor settings. I'm not saying it *should* be enforced, i'm just taking a stab in the dark as to why they enforce it.

Now, if people want an option to turn on an FPS cap, that's different. But don't you dare try to sit there and tell me that I should not be allowed to run it above xyzFPS just because someone else can't. That's absolutely stupid, and not to mention that because of fail-safe software & hardware design, it's actually impossible for the average user to burn their video card (it takes someone that knows how to bypass certain coding).

Well you should be allowed to, I wasn't trying to say you shouldn't. Just some theorymoning about why companies cap them at all. They should just link fps settings to auto-detect, maybe less people would choose poor caps that way.

FYI, I do use a 60FPS cap on all games I play on my PC when and where there is a choice to. Even when emulating old games, unless I want to play in turbo-mode, I use no more than 60FPS.

I do too actually, though i've never tried with a higher cap. I'm 99% certain I couldn't run a smooth 120 though so i wont even bother.

[Dragon]

I'm not talking about "handle", i'm talking about consistency. Handling 60 fps is a lot different than running a smooth 60 fps. For example, you can probably run higher than 60 fps, but you optionally choose to cap it at 60...because you know you can run it silky smooth at that cap. The average person would have no idea. An FPS cap just prevents the average person from becoming dissatisfied with gameplay due to poor settings. I'm not saying it *should* be enforced, i'm just taking a stab in the dark as to why they enforce it.

Well if that's why they want to enforce it, they should still give the ability to turn it off. I really don't mind the default settings themselves not being to my liking, just the inability to change them, and SE has done good so far on that end I'll admit.

They should just link fps settings to auto-detect, maybe less people would choose poor caps that way.

And/or use auto-detect to give info on which settings are going to work at what FPS rating .

I do too actually, though i've never tried with a higher cap. I'm 99% certain I couldn't run a smooth 120 though so i wont even bother.

Nah, I probably could get it run smoothly at 120FPS, but that'd be such a huge graphical downgrade, probably worse than ever getting FFXI to run at 999FPS.

[Valmonte]

Eh, I didn't buy a true 120hz monitor for 3D.

If FFXIV burns up a PC that's SE fault. Bad optimization. Yes, the 60 fps cap and 30 fps cap were placed to prevent this from happening since beta, but that was because the original engine and overall server design stunk. The developers have already admitted to this. It's no secret.

I mean, FFXIV graphics are nice and all... but they aren't that nice. It's terrible optimization bringing your computer to its knees. Like you said, rendering objects far above and below what you even see on your screen hogging up resources pointlessly. I turn on ambient occlusion and I run FFXIV at 2 fps. I run BF3 on ultra with no problems. 50-90 fps and temps no higher than 55 degrees Celsius. Even on my gtx 460 768mb I could run far more demanding games than FFXIV well into 60+ fps (medium-high settings) under 60 degrees Celsius. It's not like we need an fps limit for other games on the market that are way more demanding than FFXIV (DX11 games). Why aren't those games frying machines?

The new engine that they are working on is supposed to alleviate these issues. If they need to cap your fps at 60 in order to prevent your computer from melting then they are simply putting a bandaid on a horrible mess of an engine to begin with. This is why they are building a new engine from the ground up for 2.0. We are playing on PC, not consoles. I expect to see fps cap on consoles simply because there is no work around for those systems. You are playing with what you have on a PS3. No upgrades and everyones machine is the same. But when it comes to PC, there are going to be a wide variety of set up's which means there should be a wide variety of graphical options for both lower end and higher end machines. Lower end machines can crank the graphics down to maintain playable frames, while higher end machines can crank up the graphics to make use of the hardware.

Directx11 is less taxing than both 9 and 10 when using comparable features, as for lowering features i've run this game on an ATI X650 with everything on low granted it looks like wolfenstein 3d but is it playable. here's a screenie if you dont believe me < http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/57...0679616BF27B6/ >