Suggestion:Enemy Territory - a concept desire for future areas.

[Shurrikhan]

IMO, for this to work in an MMO you'd need to do one of two things. You either have it as part of a mission storyline where you're effectively locked in that zone up to a certain point (the way Vashj'ir was done), or you make it part of a bigger storyline where you're tasked with infiltrating enemy ranks and completing quest objectives up to a certain point where you do something big to sabotage the enemy operations and go back to normal (like it was done in Mt. Hyjal).

A mission storyline, whether put in place by exact quests or by simply having the NPCs and certain plot locations necessary to progress several different ones, is needed, but it doesn't need to be as urgent as an actual "mission". General plot connectablity is just as viable, and does not limit the city's use to just a small set of quest lines. Phasing it the zones into oblivion as with Cataclysm's Vash'jr and Mt. Hyjal, inversely, tends to leave only a shoddy mess of a half-assed plot progression. If something showing the effects of player actions is implemented, it would probably do best to show not only your actions, but most in general -- such as a town under attacks from rebels via stealth and explosives. And you're in the thick of it, without clear belief in either side's doings.

WoW examples aside, I agree that being locked into places such as to create the feeling of really being lost in a jungle or unable to escape from a city can be great. However, there's a lot that can still be done with less urgency in these zones. NPC relationships, discoveries, and more gradual plot developments will each carry a unique spin just from being there, as long as they are part of a larger plot. That plot does not need to show itself as obviously as through actual sabotage.

[Duelle]

A mission storyline, whether put in place by exact quests or by simply having the NPCs and certain plot locations necessary to progress several different ones, is needed, but it doesn't need to be as urgent as an actual "mission". General plot connectablity is just as viable, and does not limit the city's use to just a small set of quest lines.

Storyline does have to explain why this particular town is not coming after you when the rest of the empire is. This is why "enemy side" parts in a game's story are brief and temporary, and you usually never see that element again after it is no longer relevant to what you're doing in-game.

Phasing it the zones into oblivion as with Cataclysm's Vash'jr and Mt. Hyjal, inversely, tends to leave only a shoddy mess of a half-assed plot progression.

While I'm not one to turn to phasing as the first option in telling a story, the convoluted mess seen in WoW was due to shoddy writing. The phasing itself had little to do with said mess.

WoW examples aside, I agree that being locked into places such as to create the feeling of really being lost in a jungle or unable to escape from a city can be great. However, there's a lot that can still be done with less urgency in these zones.

I don't think you can really have an enemy city that is friendly to you "just because". There's a reason you usually have either purposeful infiltration, anmesia, and general displacement as devices used to explain why these people are not killing you on the spot.

[Viritess]

Storyline does have to explain why this particular town is not coming after you when the rest of the empire is. This is why "enemy side" parts in a game's story are brief and temporary, and you usually never see that element again after it is no longer relevant to what you're doing in-game.

While I'm not one to turn to phasing as the first option in telling a story, the convoluted mess seen in WoW was due to shoddy writing. The phasing itself had little to do with said mess.

I don't think you can really have an enemy city that is friendly to you "just because". There's a reason you usually have either purposeful infiltration, anmesia, and general displacement as devices used to explain why these people are not killing you on the spot.

I can agree with much of your post.

Firstly Wow phasing was often over used it hub type areas. Which made it even more difficult.

Really the details of any location and why, how and how long your there depends on the story writing. Especially in a fantasy setting much of the "everyday" issues can be worked around by something magical and mystical to explain some story holes.

Example: A villager killed without reason by "enemy". The family who wants revenge. The Mystic who grans magic apon a mask to impersonate the man. The family of said man whom takes you in and helps you find the criminals etc"

Short point. without embelishing to the why of the mystic or the who of the enemy. by injecting the fantasy "magic" card you can produce a more solid story because of it.

Personally i think Phasing would be better used on the NPC level then area. Then you and your friends can be in the same area yet the NPCs for each of you can potentially be different or in different states. The issues of your friends disappearing is resolved.

I think if we put faith in the writes in tandum with the developers i belive they could indeed find a way to include persistant enemy areas that give you a form of, or gradual access. And even if that form of access is at some point removed. then they can provide a way to obtain something different