Accuracy questions.

[Hyrist]

Look I'm just trying to help your friend with 368 acc, if they want to roll with that its w/e, they pay to play their game therefore should be able to do w/e they want. I'm just thankful the DRGs I play with are smarter then that.

Kay, stop with the insults - we know how to read.

What I am telling you is that our experiences belie your accretions. The percentage chance of missing your Weapon Skills is so minute compared to that of your normal Auto-Attack, that the benefits outweigh the losses. I'm well aware of the fact that when you Miss a WS, it's lost DPS. What we are telling you is that it simply does not happen enough on WSes to merit the sort of absolution panic you're presenting. Instead, what is happening in the pratical application is that we're missing auto-attacks, which are immediately followed up on by low TP WSes that are resulting in more damage overall, as opposed to less.

That's not to say 364 Accuracy is the best accuracy to have for every situation. You've no idea how those values change or what monsters she's facing. Garuda is a non-factor in our linkshell right now as it's rotated into the cycle infrequently and attendance for her is poor. That renders all of your accuracy concerns for my friend to be moot, as Rail is parsing in the high 90% for hit-rate according to BGParse (Used by our Raid Captain.)

You want to be rude and closed minded about it, that's your failing. Otherwise, try getting your Accuracy to about 95-96% Rather than 100%. At worst you'll have a good chance of missing 1 hit of your Chaos Thrust and be able to follow it up with a combo for more damage. Or, while trying to set up position, get a missed auto-attack and be able to combo on the spot.

We've stated our experience with it. Instead of trying to assert your superiority, why don't you test it for yourself first? As I said, I find the sweet-spot to be around 95% accuracy on average, although, the test samples are small due to the speed of the fights and infrequency of appropriate people on.

[Eliseus]

Kay, stop with the insults - we know how to read.

What I am telling you is that our experiences belie your accretions. The percentage chance of missing your Weapon Skills is so minute compared to that of your normal Auto-Attack, that the benefits outweigh the losses. I'm well aware of the fact that when you Miss a WS, it's lost DPS. What we are telling you is that it simply does not happen enough on WSes to merit the sort of absolution panic you're presenting. Instead, what is happening in the pratical application is that we're missing auto-attacks, which are immediately followed up on by low TP WSes that are resulting in more damage overall, as opposed to less.

That's not to say 364 Accuracy is the best accuracy to have for every situation. You've no idea how those values change or what monsters she's facing. Garuda is a non-factor in our linkshell right now as it's rotated into the cycle infrequently and attendance for her is poor. That renders all of your accuracy concerns for my friend to be moot, as Rail is parsing in the high 90% for hit-rate according to BGParse (Used by our Raid Captain.)

You want to be rude and closed minded about it, that's your failing. Otherwise, try getting your Accuracy to about 95-96% Rather than 100%. At worst you'll have a good chance of missing 1 hit of your Chaos Thrust and be able to follow it up with a combo for more damage. Or, while trying to set up position, get a missed auto-attack and be able to combo on the spot.

We've stated our experience with it. Instead of trying to assert your superiority, why don't you test it for yourself first? As I said, I find the sweet-spot to be around 95% accuracy on average, although, the test samples are small due to the speed of the fights and infrequency of appropriate people on.

I did test it, again, go read previous posts. So you are just going to spam miss normal hits then? How do you get TP when meditate and jump are down?

Show me some parse data like I already asked for and I'll believe how godly you must be with your 364? Acc now (in the 380s a little more believable that some people mention in this thread, but you are just dumb with 364). I feel like I'm talking to a wall that just isn't listening, I've even explained about how good the miss WS' in actuality really are. You don't have to listen, I really don't care, Ty for noticing my superiority, I love to assert it.

Go fight a 58 mob for example, hell you can do it on a lvl 1. The lvl 1 might be better though since 364 acc you are going to have a hard time on the 58s.

Oh, btw, I never said to not use the miss WS' at all, I think I even mentioned once using them on a missed normal hit (hence actually reading which you say you know how to do but IDK). I said it's not worth gearing to actually try and miss for those due to RNG and 30s CDs.

[Malix]

Kay, stop with the insults - we know how to read.

What I am telling you is that our experiences belie your accretions. The percentage chance of missing your Weapon Skills is so minute compared to that of your normal Auto-Attack, that the benefits outweigh the losses. I'm well aware of the fact that when you Miss a WS, it's lost DPS. What we are telling you is that it simply does not happen enough on WSes to merit the sort of absolution panic you're presenting. Instead, what is happening in the pratical application is that we're missing auto-attacks, which are immediately followed up on by low TP WSes that are resulting in more damage overall, as opposed to less.

That's not to say 364 Accuracy is the best accuracy to have for every situation. You've no idea how those values change or what monsters she's facing. Garuda is a non-factor in our linkshell right now as it's rotated into the cycle infrequently and attendance for her is poor. That renders all of your accuracy concerns for my friend to be moot, as Rail is parsing in the high 90% for hit-rate according to BGParse (Used by our Raid Captain.)

You want to be rude and closed minded about it, that's your failing. Otherwise, try getting your Accuracy to about 95-96% Rather than 100%. At worst you'll have a good chance of missing 1 hit of your Chaos Thrust and be able to follow it up with a combo for more damage. Or, while trying to set up position, get a missed auto-attack and be able to combo on the spot.

We've stated our experience with it. Instead of trying to assert your superiority, why don't you test it for yourself first? As I said, I find the sweet-spot to be around 95% accuracy on average, although, the test samples are small due to the speed of the fights and infrequency of appropriate people on.

Sorry had to chime in on this. If garuda isnt a factor thats all well in good but bear in mind that garuda is currently the highest endgame content at the moment and if you had any mmo experience you would know that the next content they add are gonna be more demanding stat wise. your 364 is fine for what ever you doing but any garuda group thats plan on winning will NOT take you with that much accuracy it wont happen no matter what your theory are. another thing to note on fight like garuda or even ifrit when you dont have much uptime on the boss accuracy is especially key, sure you can say "even if i miss i can just use fient combo" but its an EXTRA action which you might not be able to do. so yea the theory of stacking attack over acc is sound in situations where you can stay nearly full uptime on a boss but on all the endgame content that matters you cant.

[Hyrist]

Sorry had to chime in on this. If garuda isnt a factor thats all well in good but bear in mind that garuda is currently the highest endgame content at the moment and if you had any mmo experience you would know that the next content they add are gonna be more demanding stat wise.

I've quite a bit of MMO experience, and I've had more than a few experiences to the contrary of your statement Malix.

But ignoring that, what you are forgetting, simply, is that Power Creep, the circumstance you are describing in which monsters are they are released get progressively stronger to challenge players who get better and better builds, works both ways.

Just as I have a different set for high-evasion monsters, and intended build progression path, so too would Rail's gear change as more gear becomes available. The previously stated value isn't a static number for eternity. It's not as if she doesn't already have her eyes on the Flame Lt's Spear, which, by the way gives even Garuda's Beak a run for its money. (With me as a Gridanian... hmm. Awell!)

As far as Accuracy in situations in which you have limited attack windows. I would agree on insuring accuracy. But, to be blunt, the only Primal that gets reliable attendance is Moogle - and that does give a good bit of standing DPS time, and at low Accuracy requirements to boot.

The point of the matter is, however, you gear for what you do and in a straight standing DPS race, Dragoon doesn't benefit as much from max accuracy. As you move on to challenge higher things as your gear improves.

That said, there is a bit of a misnomer on Garuda. Her attack Window is only limited in the first and second stages, no where near as problematic movement wise as Ifrit is. Once stage two is done, you're more or less straight DPSing. And her Jumps are more likely to break your chains than a miss is, in these circumstances.

Anyways, I'm still narrowing down where the exact sweet spot is percentage wise, and of course that changes from target to target so it's quite hard to get a solid sample base.

But like Mariya, I tend to have spare pieces of gear on hand for adjustments. (I've got adjustments on hand to emphasize crit chance, Accuracy, and - Emnity respectively, though, Rail has a far better - Emnity build than I do. I take soo much hate ; ; )

[Eliseus]

I've quite a bit of MMO experience, and I've had more than a few experiences to the contrary of your statement Malix.

But ignoring that, what you are forgetting, simply, is that Power Creep, the circumstance you are describing in which monsters are they are released get progressively stronger to challenge players who get better and better builds, works both ways.

Just as I have a different set for high-evasion monsters, and intended build progression path, so too would Rail's gear change as more gear becomes available. The previously stated value isn't a static number for eternity. It's not as if she doesn't already have her eyes on the Flame Lt's Spear, which, by the way gives even Garuda's Beak a run for its money. (With me as a Gridanian... hmm. Awell!)

As far as Accuracy in situations in which you have limited attack windows. I would agree on insuring accuracy. But, to be blunt, the only Primal that gets reliable attendance is Moogle - and that does give a good bit of standing DPS time, and at low Accuracy requirements to boot.

The point of the matter is, however, you gear for what you do and in a straight standing DPS race, Dragoon doesn't benefit as much from max accuracy. As you move on to challenge higher things as your gear improves.

That said, there is a bit of a misnomer on Garuda. Her attack Window is only limited in the first and second stages, no where near as problematic movement wise as Ifrit is. Once stage two is done, you're more or less straight DPSing. And her Jumps are more likely to break your chains than a miss is, in these circumstances.

Anyways, I'm still narrowing down where the exact sweet spot is percentage wise, and of course that changes from target to target so it's quite hard to get a solid sample base.

But like Mariya, I tend to have spare pieces of gear on hand for adjustments. (I've got adjustments on hand to emphasize crit chance, Accuracy, and - Emnity respectively, though, Rail has a far better - Emnity build than I do. I take soo much hate ; ; )

No, you are wrong.

[Malix]

Firstly to Hyrist,
The only content dragoons are generally accepted by is Garuda, Ifrit extreme and lol moogle. moogle you dont need to gear accuracy but the other 2 you do. dont get me wrong you can use dragoons on any fight you want (however chimera is debateable) but in an purely optimal setting those are the only 2 fights people would even consider using a dragooon.

Now for MariyaShidou

didnt think i had to dumb it down because i figured you knew what the definition of "nothing" was. i was in a group switched to drg had nothing on that gave acc and had 341 acc. But wait theres more, didnt you say you got 460+ with accessories alone? i believe you did. read your own posts before you read mines.

[MariyaShidou]

Firstly to Hyrist,
The only content dragoons are generally accepted by is Garuda, Ifrit extreme and lol moogle. moogle you dont need to gear accuracy but the other 2 you do. dont get me wrong you can use dragoons on any fight you want (however chimera is debateable) but in an purely optimal setting those are the only 2 fights people would even consider using a dragooon.

Now for MariyaShidou

didnt think i had to dumb it down because i figured you knew what the definition of "nothing" was. i was in a group switched to drg had nothing on that gave acc and had 341 acc. But wait theres more, didnt you say you got 460+ with accessories alone? i believe you did. read your own posts before you read mines.

"If I want I can get easily 460 Acc solo" is what I wrote. I also said that I have 371 Acc without Ring/Choker/Food/Materia for Acc buff. I don't even know why you're nitpicking on me, maybe because I have more Acc than you guys could have or something? Whatever, I'm playing the game casually and I seriously doubt that trying to compare with me would boost your ego much Full DL, triple/quad Grade IV melded gears I have seen them all, maybe you want to compare your stat to them. JP DRG also killed Garuda in full AF, 'nuff said.

[Eliseus]

"If I want I can get easily 460 Acc solo" is what I wrote. I also said that I have 371 Acc without Ring/Choker/Food/Materia for Acc buff. I don't even know why you're nitpicking on me, maybe because I have more Acc than you guys could have or something? Whatever, I'm playing the game casually and I seriously doubt that trying to compare with me would boost your ego much Full DL, triple/quad Grade IV melded gears I have seen them all, maybe you want to compare your stat to them. JP DRG also killed Garuda in full AF, 'nuff said.

No, you are wrong.

[Malix]

"If I want I can get easily 460 Acc solo" is what I wrote. I also said that I have 371 Acc without Ring/Choker/Food/Materia for Acc buff. I don't even know why you're nitpicking on me, maybe because I have more Acc than you guys could have or something? Whatever, I'm playing the game casually and I seriously doubt that trying to compare with me would boost your ego much Full DL, triple/quad Grade IV melded gears I have seen them all, maybe you want to compare your stat to them. JP DRG also killed Garuda in full AF, 'nuff said.

Thats all well and good but i hope u do realize that using acc accessories is gearing for accuracy. so basically i just wasted my time argueing with you lol.

[Hyrist]

(Eliseus reported for spam + Placed on ignore.)

Firstly to Hyrist,
The only content dragoons are generally accepted by is Garuda, Ifrit extreme and lol moogle. moogle you dont need to gear accuracy but the other 2 you do. dont get me wrong you can use dragoons on any fight you want (however chimera is debateable) but in an purely optimal setting those are the only 2 fights people would even consider using a dragooon.

Ifrit is more important on it than Garuda as Garuda provides more straight DPS time, especially if you're attempting to skip. But you do need more accuracy to hit the sweet spot regardless with Garuda, as she's higher evasion by and large with Ifrit, aside from Extreme which you said is a minority event anyways. I do have to give props that the developers are starting to realize they have to make mechanics that stress the importance of a balanced group.

Ifrit you want 100% simply because you don't have the time for extended combos. Garuda gives far better tells for her skills.

A side-note - I did state previously that I am not in a Hardcore shell so 'optimal build mention' is irrelevant to the discussion. The game is currently balanced around a party of the 7 base classes with 1 flex position - and they're getting better at putting emphasis on that. I'm hoping by the time they come out with Battle Regime again the concept of class stacking will seem ineffective by comparison, but that doesn't stop my approach.

Ultimately the emphasis on loot over people is the reason why I stay away from hardcore groups. They won't hesitate to marry you to a class or job that you don't enjoy because it measures out as a better job for the role. My approach is the inverse, you chose a Class/Job you chose to excel at and you focus on being the best it can - regardless if it's the favorite of the patch or not. Thus, my concern isn't the popularity of the job, but rather what I can do to make it effective. For Chimera, I might just go Lancer to equip Maim - (if I do the run at all, I don't think the shell is interested really. I am though, being told the job is unpopular presents me with a challenge.)

This means various builds for various fights, and looking for all the little quirks that can eek out a bit more performance.

You let the person come to their own conclusion of having more than one job available for the group - something that will get easier to do once Classes have more than one Job attached to them.