AOE Spam Fest <Please remove it>

[Rokien]

Pretty bad when Analhelm is making the most sense

that's a funny joke!~

Oh, ok and what point do I have in killing those nms over and over and over and over and over and over again? I can't level up off of them~

I think if the normal small nms should be how normal mobs should be. At least they are SOME what interesting. Though, there is no point in fighting them, they are not good to level off of.

What they should do if they have groups of mobs, have them stick together in a group of 1-4 mobs. One mob of the group will be a tougher(leader) mob than the other 3 mobs. The group of mobs should take at least a few minutes to kill.

Example: Billy goat and three nanny's , the nanny's will follow the billy around(without a leash, there should be no leash on mobs). While you have the tank, tank the billy, you can have everyone else on the lesser. As you kill one off the group gets stronger, use different abilities(keep players on their toes). So you will have to use CC skills, debuffs, and all that other nonsense that you people don't like.

[Jynx]

Okay, this is what Elder Mosshorn and other NMs are for, not mooks. There should be more of them, but that's what they're for.

Let me get this right.

What is the point of "Mook" monsters then anyways to just exist? Screenfiller? I guess adventurers go out to pick pansies and venture into a instanced box or notorious monsters spawn area whenever they are feeling like actually adventuring.

I guess I'll just leave it at that, it's a matter of agreeing to disagree.

[Alhanelem]

What is the point of "Mook" monsters then anyways to just exist?

a "mook" is a term for rank and file filler monsters in an RPG or action game; they're the weaker enemies that appear in large numbers all over the world. They're not meant to be difficult. They're a resource, not a challenge to be overcome. In this case the resource is EXP and trash that is usually vendored for money or used for low level crafting.

In an old school RPG, these are all the random encounters you get while travelling; not the scripted or otherwise special encounters that are specifically there to provide a challenge to the player. In an MMO, these are the monsters that dot the landscape, waiting to have their faces beaten in by adventurers. They are sometimes also speed bumps while travelling, and mooks above your level range are road blocks.

We've all grinded mooks a miillion times before in RPGs and MMOs; hence why I'd prefer the effort be focused on the content you gain access to after you go through all of that.

[DeadRiser]

Just because other games have these mobs as "mook" or whatever you call it, doesn't mean XIV has to do the same.

I'd love for all content to be somewhat challenging, even leveling up. I played in the Guild Wars 2 beta, and leveling up on normal mobs is fun and some of them are actually a challenge, even the one near my level. Why can't XIV have the same?

[Alhanelem]

I haven't played one game where leveling up had any challenge to it other than reaching the next level before you ran out of time to play. Leveling isn't the reason I play these games, therefore I really don't mind it at all nor care for it to change. I'm here to splo stuff up and battle epic bosses and overcome the perils of dungeons, not kill 4000 worms and kobolds.

Even if leveling was a fun and challenging component, I'd call you crazy if you preferred the latter over the former.

[Jynx]

I'd call you crazy if you preferred the latter over the former.

Colour me crazy then, I enjoyed leveling in XI far more than "Endgame" content because I could do it on my terms whenever I wanted with whomever I wanted instead of requiring the "best" to get anything done like XIV is.

Endgame doesn't reward doing things the fun way it rewards them for doing it the way they think is right. I can't gather my friends and go whup Ifrit if they aren't the exact combo I'm looking for. At least open world open ended content allows me to go fight that "Super mook" (Yeah that's what I'll call them from now on)

I don't have to worry about arbitrary time-limits to get proper loot pools, me and my friends have all the time in the world to kill whatever we want however we want. Of course permiting we are strong enough to tackle the monsters but at least I don't have a ticking time-bomb over my head or a single spawn enemy to contest over.

I guess I enjoy the freedom that difficult but open content gives me. I don't want my world monsters to exist just for the purpose of being fodder for my axe I want to earn that loot wether I do it alone or with friends I want the challenge and the options to fight things in the world.

I don't want to be in a highly rail-roaded instanced event with a time limit that encourages class stacking. i want to have fun while I level my character and take my time learning my class the ins and outs the intracacies of everything while I play not skip everything until I hit 50 then start learning.

I loved being able to stop at 50 in XI and still feel powerfull (Not as much as a 75) But I was still considerably stronger than I was at level 40, 30, 20, 10, 1 and I had hardships to face to grow even more powerfull. At any point of the game I had tons of stuff to do I didn't have to wait until max level for interesting events to be available I could sustain myself and my crafts before being maxed out.

This game lacks character progression and the half-hearted leveling system is to blame for it partialy as well as the community that sits back and accepts that the game should only start being fun at 50.

[DeadRiser]

Colour me crazy then, I enjoyed leveling in XI far more than "Endgame" content because I could do it on my terms whenever I wanted with whomever I wanted instead of requiring the "best" to get anything done like XIV is.

Endgame doesn't reward doing things the fun way it rewards them for doing it the way they think is right. I can't gather my friends and go whup Ifrit if they aren't the exact combo I'm looking for. At least open world open ended content allows me to go fight that "Super mook" (Yeah that's what I'll call them from now on)

I don't have to worry about arbitrary time-limits to get proper loot pools, me and my friends have all the time in the world to kill whatever we want however we want. Of course permiting we are strong enough to tackle the monsters but at least I don't have a ticking time-bomb over my head or a single spawn enemy to contest over.

I guess I enjoy the freedom that difficult but open content gives me. I don't want my world monsters to exist just for the purpose of being fodder for my axe I want to earn that loot wether I do it alone or with friends I want the challenge and the options to fight things in the world.

I don't want to be in a highly rail-roaded instanced event with a time limit that encourages class stacking. i want to have fun while I level my character and take my time learning my class the ins and outs the intracacies of everything while I play not skip everything until I hit 50 then start learning.

I loved being able to stop at 50 in XI and still feel powerfull (Not as much as a 75) But I was still considerably stronger than I was at level 40, 30, 20, 10, 1 and I had hardships to face to grow even more powerfull. At any point of the game I had tons of stuff to do I didn't have to wait until max level for interesting events to be available I could sustain myself and my crafts before being maxed out.

This game lacks character progression and the half-hearted leveling system is to blame for it partialy as well as the community that sits back and accepts that the game should only start being fun at 50.

This^^^

And pretty much nothing else. People are losing touch with the point in leveling. Character progression. Now they are just viewing it as a chore more than anything.

I remeber when this game first came out and I was one of the few people that had protect and shell. That was "rank" 16 at the time and it took a lot to level errr rank up back then lol.I remember when I could finally do Totorak, and completing it and getting some new gear was awesome.

Now, it's a race to 50, which is a damn shame.

[Shurrikhan]

I haven't played one game where leveling up had any challenge to it other than reaching the next level before you ran out of time to play. Leveling isn't the reason I play these games, therefore I really don't mind it at all nor care for it to change. I'm here to blow stuff up and battle epic bosses and overcome the perils of dungeons, not kill 4000 worms and kobolds.

Even if leveling was a fun and challenging component, I'd call you crazy if you preferred the latter over the former.

I think the point being made time and time again is that FFXIV has something of an advantage in the possibility of making points in leveling as much a goalpoint as endgame (not just for those who already enjoy leveling whole-heartedly), or at least much more enjoyable than in other MMOs. However, it would take some adjustment. (I personally think playing on something unique like that would do more for the game than the cycling additions of new endgame content, though the latter is basically necessary until new concepts are made for endgame.)

Additionally, that some challenge is what makes it fun. In this case, you can definitely consider challenge and difficulty as being defined separately; a challenge must be surmountable, even if it is hard to do so. It doesn't generally mean great length (in objective units of time) or being face-rolled by bosses disguised as mobs. The goal is the depth, which should contribute as much to "fun" as to "challenge".

As you said, no amount of seconds, as a rule, has any place in the time it takes to fell a mob group. It's just the depth. If that depth can be had quicker, you'd probably see fewer complaints about length. But given the responsiveness of the game, both in what's to be fixed in 2.0 and the cooldowns and chaining to be retained in 2.0, it's either going to take more time, or more aspects of battle revamped.

I think in addition to either of these though, additional, newly conceptualized, systems could be helpful, whether they have to do with summoning, following challenges, spawning behavior dependent on area death rates, additional group behavior, or anything similar.

[Churchill]

Saying people are losing touch with the point of leveling and then claiming the point of leveling is character progression is a great example of your first point.

[Firon]

a "mook" is a term for rank and file filler monsters in an RPG or action game; they're the weaker enemies that appear in large numbers all over the world. They're not meant to be difficult. They're a resource, not a challenge to be overcome. In this case the resource is EXP and trash that is usually vendored for money or used for low level crafting.

In an old school RPG, these are all the random encounters you get while travelling; not the scripted or otherwise special encounters that are specifically there to provide a challenge to the player. In an MMO, these are the monsters that dot the landscape, waiting to have their faces beaten in by adventurers. They are sometimes also speed bumps while travelling, and mooks above your level range are road blocks.

We've all grinded mooks a miillion times before in RPGs and MMOs; hence why I'd prefer the effort be focused on the content you gain access to after you go through all of that.

This i loved XI but if they wanna fight one mob for long ass time and say it took a good strat they are completely wrong. People keep saying dumb shit like Leveling up should train you for end game, well it should not XI combat was so slow and dull that a party fighting an Crab in a exp pt in the dunes was no different than fighting genbu rly cause the strat didn't change much.

The mob balance in XI was very poor, at the start of the game they train you to solo then once you head to a stronger area all mobs suddenly become elite, at this point taking on an EM mob will most likely result in your death depending on your class, so the point is we don't need these type of mobs everywhere in the game but they are welcome. This game also has a few mobs who are hard to kill and take a while to do so but people skip over them, H-1's Ghost in AV, Peiste in CC, Lvl 55+ mobs in strong hold the list goes on.