Future Endgame gear vs crafted gear with Materia.

[Jeronlmo]

Obviously if everyone cant get something, its poor/lazy design.

Has anyone ever heard of this magical thing called economy?

[Noir]

Hey everyone

This actually greatly concerns me because of the current trend of FFXIV as someone that wants to see this game succeed and grow in population to the point that Yoshi-p hopes.

Currently gear fully slotted with materia (or slotted with at least 3)is unrivaled in many occasions. That's fine since the game is unfinished and doesn't really have anything worth mentioning as far as endgame goes, however as the game evolves I do see quite the issue since Yoshi-P plans to add a lot of content as well as pvp.

The major thing that needs to be considered, the vast majority of MMO players do not care about crafting nor do they want to feel forced to do it with the current materia and repair system I kind of feel like I have to or I'll end up spending literally millions on one item that isn't even worth the price.

The major problem here is that when people do endgame raids, when people pvp they want to see rewards directly from those. They want to see gear upgrades that are better then anything they can buy, including crafted items.

The reason this is an issue is a lesson that should have been learned from FFXI seems to have gone ignored and they seem to be overcompensating for the uselessness of most crafting in FFXI by making it almost required or at least feel required.

That lesson is, very few people if any will do an event or kill enemies just to do it if there is no real reward from it.

If materia is made more powerful or endgame/PVP rewards aren't as good as as gear slotted with 4-5 materia, I hate to say it but the majority of the worlds MMO community will just not bother which means content won't be done which means less subscribers.

CoP proves this in the fact that very few people have seen a benefit from Al'tieu in FFXI so it was the least done portion of endgame in FFXI next to HNMs with no real drops. Abyssea further proves it since almost no one went back to older content because it was "useless" Keep in mind most people that play in abyssea couldn't cut it in the older content for the most part.

SE could easily keep crafting very useful by either making new gear for newer content that crafters can make, or by making older ones(at the level cap) dated and allowing every craft to make the same item with upgraded stats. So for example The cobalt tanking set would have higher defense, hp, vit and so on then the one from the patch before.

This is a simple solution and does help keep crafting involved, materia also wouldn't suffer since people would buy these items if they couldn't get the gear from the previous set of content.

Lets all keep in mind they are clearly NOT following the FFXI model since its basically proven to not work in terms of major MMOs go, other MMO developers don't even see SE as a competitor in the MMO industry.

I do want to see FFXIV succeed but they won't if all they do is cater to crafters. The majority of the worlds MMO players want battle-related content, not to sit in the city and hit an anvil or play with a saw.. and in order to do that gear from endgame content and PVP needs to be the best for what its made for, nothing wrong with crafted gear coming close, but it shouldn't be better, even with full materia slots.

Some noob talking nonsense...

When you said "people walking with 4/5 melds".

Do you know how many people have double meld? Triple meld? 0.1% 4 melds? I saw one and one gear piece. 5? Never saw.

Wrf are you talking about?

Plus, most triple melded gear I saw are the same value as double melded high value. Very few have a triple meld high value. Don't be jealous ok? It's an ugly thing. I don't know anyone who would change a darklight set for some melded gear.

[Amsai]

I don't know anyone who would change a darklight set for some melded gear.

Me........

I always tank in heavy melded HP gear, with a some enmity and acc thrown in. I have 2 basic sets:
Set 1 is mostly HPs and with food gets me to 5.5k+ HPs
Set 2 is mostly HPs (4700ish w/ food) and about +60 eva and +60 parry

Heavy Dark light is trash for straight tanking say Coincounter and Ive passed on it quite a few times. Maybe if they made it wit a bit more survivabilty built in it would be OK, but all that enmity is overkill and not really needed. I can garuntee you this, I wouldnt be able to straight tank Coincounter and stand up to multiple blows with full HDL.

Now that being said DL gear does have some good pieces, but I wouldnt tank in any of it.

[Noir]

Me........

I always tank in heavy melded HP gear, with a some enmity and acc thrown in. I have 2 basic sets:
Set 1 is mostly HPs and with food gets me to 5.5k+ HPs
Set 2 is mostly HPs (4700ish w/ food) and about +60 eva and +60 parry

Heavy Dark light is trash for straight tanking say Coincounter and Ive passed on it quite a few times. Maybe if they made it wit a bit more survivabilty built in it would be OK, but all that enmity is overkill and not really needed. I can garuntee you this, I wouldnt be able to straight tank Coincounter and stand up to multiple blows with full HDL.

Now that being said DL gear does have some good pieces, but I wouldnt tank in any of it.

I agree, but I meant as changing the whole thing for melded. That's what he was implying. Of course people mix some pieces. Plus depend on style and party setup. I know some blm with triple meld pieces that some tanks definitely will apreciate the extra emnity, Garuda speaking. But for this boss, hp++ isn't bad either.

[Mort]

Not sure if this was mentioned, but im sure there will be a fine line between combat end-game and crafting-endgame.
He wants crafters and battle classes to go hand in hand. In the future i think we will see more stuff like Dodore doublet etc.

Materials that drop from raid, i think thats intresting, dont you?

[Disc]

And apparently you completely misread half the post or didn't bother to read it at all, because you refuse to take fact and rather live in a world where FFXIV has a huge population, when it doesn't, The population of FF MMOs is so small in fact most companies laugh at square enix for running failures in their eyes, and to be honest FF MMOs 11 and 14 have fallen greatly behind. Maybe its time to change their model a bit.

They could EASILY keep crafting useful by helping to make better items as time goes on rather then only make basic items, materia should NOT be involved at all. If they keep materia then they need to either nerf it or make pve drops have insane stats. They could have the great items come from crafting, since in ALL SUCCESSFUL MMOs craftig is used as a boost all, not an end all. They boost players to be able to do endgame, but gear doesn't end in crafting.

Perhaps you want the game to keep the low population and have an early death, i sure as hell don't. What we have right now is terrible and a lot of the current ffxiv fans are pigheaded and think the game is perfect anyways and refuse to admit there is a problem.

It doesn't matter what the current players think is balanced, it matters what those people that have quit think, and I often invite new players to my linkshell and within a month they quit because the game is more focused on crafting then anything else. They have little to do, they want to be able to do more when they first pick up a game not run around killing mobs with no objective in sight. This doesn't help crafting this helps the game die. When people pick up an MMO the LAST thing on their mind is crafting, and nothing will change that.

I don't think you really understand how much larger MMOs work, they all have crafting and its still useful if you think it isn't maybe you should check them out or at least read about them. If SE thinks their current "balance" will work its because they are asking fanboys who think their game is perfect anyways rather then ask the people that have quit what they think and what they want. They vastly outnumber the people currently playing the game, and its them that will bring it back to life, not the current subscribers.

I'm well aware of how small the FFXIV population is, but crafting isn't what caused it to shrink so fast. On release XIV had insanely bad lag on menus, combat, npc's, etc. We had completely useless mechanics like battle regiments & a wonderful fatigue system which limited you to roughly 12 hours per class each week. Add on lack of an AH & basic PC UI functions, the game was just undeniably terrible.(We had this crazy idea that it would get better after closed beta)


I'll repeat myself, if crafted gear doesn't have at least one slot where it is the best, there's no point in having it. Adequate XP gear is easily attained through leve's, quests, & dungeons.

Now if you want to be rational about it & I don't know, meet in the middle... Abjurations & cursed gear are good for both sides. Crafters make cursed gear while striving for the ever so rare HQ, and DoW/M raid dungeons for the abjurations to turn it into something useful. NQ ends up cheap & acceptable, HQ is there for those who go above & beyond. Maybe even a chance to finally put materia on unique equipment.

I'm not really interested in which MMO has the biggest & bestest population ever. WoW hit an unbelievably high mark out of sheer luck, & has managed to sink it's teeth into pop culture because of that. No other P2P MMO has come close since then, & none will. If 2.0 & PS3 release bring FFXIV up to FFXI '06 numbers & hold it steady I will be perfectly content with the population.

Why you believe the current crafting system will have such a heavy effect on this is beyond me.

[Jeronlmo]

HP build just means your a bad tank really... every single one of Coincounter's attacks can be avoided if you use your abilities correctly between his TP moves to avoid animation lock, having very high enmity and avoiding attacks can let your DD's go balls-to-the-wall and have 2min CC's. HDL is better, HP set also means your DD's are bad because they dont pull hate, and if your eating attacks its more stress on the whm's who could be keeping stone/aero up for debuffs to increase blm dmg.

[Chardrizard]

Me........

I always tank in heavy melded HP gear, with a some enmity and acc thrown in. I have 2 basic sets:
Set 1 is mostly HPs and with food gets me to 5.5k+ HPs
Set 2 is mostly HPs (4700ish w/ food) and about +60 eva and +60 parry

Heavy Dark light is trash for straight tanking say Coincounter and Ive passed on it quite a few times. Maybe if they made it wit a bit more survivabilty built in it would be OK, but all that enmity is overkill and not really needed. I can garuntee you this, I wouldnt be able to straight tank Coincounter and stand up to multiple blows with full HDL.

Now that being said DL gear does have some good pieces, but I wouldnt tank in any of it.

Can i see a screenshoot of your 5.5k hp tank lmao

And why is this thread still going, its clear OP has no idea what hes talking about when it comes to materia or craft or endgame reward..

[Viritess]

Not sure if this was mentioned, but im sure there will be a fine line between combat end-game and crafting-endgame.
He wants crafters and battle classes to go hand in hand. In the future i think we will see more stuff like Dodore doublet etc.

Materials that drop from raid, i think thats intresting, dont you?

This is the type of design i like to see in a endgame dungeon and craft economy. Inter-dependancy means both are needed. Dungeons drops can and should be good. Crafted and materia'd gear should be good. Items crafted using Dungeon dropped materials to me should be in general, best.

I disagree alot with the OP's opinion on whats best for FFXIV, asumptions aside. Crafting should have a strong presence in this game in my opinion. And having both the Combat centric players and the crafting centric players share resources to make the best is really the optimum solution to keeping both relevant.

[Churchill]

I stopped reading when he said he wouldn't tank in Heavy DL.