Future Endgame gear vs crafted gear with Materia.

[Brannigan]

I just looked up your char, your opinion no longer matters.

Who are you to talk about the difficulty of crafting, when youve tried no crafts.
Who are you to talk about gathering when you do not gather.

Do people really think this? There's nothing to crafting or gathering. You can do 1-50 on a craft while AFK. Gathering is as simple as knowing "go +4 here, -4 there, +3 here" etc. HQing items has little to do with player input compared to leveling a bunch of crafts to get all the good HQing skills. There is no difficulty to crafting.

[Jeronlmo]

Your asking for clones of other games, literally and directly asking for clones, you want exactly what other games are doing. I dont believe you have played this game enough based on your levels to have a real opinion about things (esp endgame).

The majority are also casuals, that doesnt mean they should build every game that is ever created. How can you possibly argue that you want better endgame rewards and how hardcore you are when you are pro-casual for creating the game.

I promise you if you played 11 I was more into engame than you, gil sinks are what the game needs, and materia is currently it, the constant inflation and price fluctuation doesnt need to come back.

[Xikeroth]

I like what Phantasy Star Online 2 is doing in that while rare weapons usually have a better base value, both rares and non rares can still be improved and tailored very much to a player's preferences.

I think ultimately when it comes down to it, people would be happy with a weapon that looks cooler than crafted weapons as opposed to one that is better by a wide margin. With a system that lets players tool their weapon to their needs.


To give an example from pso2: I could take weapon A which i bought from the vendor and transfer a lot of attributes from other weapons onto it (+10 attack power, the chance to freeze enemies,etc) and by the end of it I would have a pretty nice weapon that i'm pretty happy with. Or i could take weapon B, that dropped from a boss, which looks really rad and then do all the same things i did to weapon A with it and have a weapon that is much more desirable solely through its skin despite not being too much more powerful.

Lets be honest do you want to be dramatically more powerful than your teammates? The ones who are going to be helping you fight?

Rare drops can be better sure, just not by such a wide margin that crafters aren't going to sell anything.

TLDR: I like lateral weapon progression a lot.


Edit: also i am aware that the materia system is very approximate to this atm.

Crafters can sell items fine, the main issue is the lack of population means people won't be able to sell very much regardless and will end up dieing out anyways. If the population grows they'll have more to sell to, however eventually they'll run out of people to buy their items.

Materia was just a sad attempt to keep items leaving circulation so that crafters wouldn't feel it as bad in a game with a very low population.

I agree with you that crafters do need to fit some roll and other MMOs have found that roll, by having larger population games, constant creation of new characters and new classes to level cap that need different kinds of items and stats have all helped crafting stay alive, in this game it doesn't really fit due to its low population.

Square Enix can easily find ways for crafting to stay alive even if it doesn't make top notch items, allowing crafts to make the best items without having to really go out and do anything is flat out poor development.

The amounts crafters charge for some things isn't even reasonable, putting 1 materia onto an item doesn't instantly make its price go from say 90k to 900k that's not even realistic.

They should however be able to upgrade gear to some point however the cost should be minimal. Crafters would still charge unreasonable amounts to do it even if its no cost to them.


Edit: SE also made leveling in this game too fast and exp party speed also does harm crafters to a smaller extent that people won't really need top notch items while leveling up and can skip several items that they could buy from crafters.

One of the major things in FFXI was leveling wasn't insanely easy or fast for most of its run, its actually easier and quicker to level in this game then any MMO I have played, however that can also be a problem for crafters as people won't need to buy items from them as much as they could to progress through the game.

[Jeronlmo]

They arent hard to level, no, and neither are DoW/DoM jobs yet he has only 2. The fact that he has no DoL/DoH yet has such a bad opinion of them is dumb. He wants the game to completely revolve around what he likes, and only what he likes.

[Ryans]

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Almost every player I see wearing materia gear has at least 3 materia melded onto it. Often 4, rarely 2...

I'm not sure you realize what people mean by double, triple, and quad melds. Its not 4 materia over all their pieces of gear, its 4 materia melded on to one piece of gear. Melding 4 Tier IV to a piece of gear is something like a 1% chance. I, for one, have never actually seen a quad tier IV meld and I go around checking every well-geared looking player I come across. While the richest and most well respected players have one or two Tier IV triple melds, it is not common in any way.

Hell, a lot of people don't even have double melds because of how expensive the materia is and how poor they are.

[Xikeroth]

But the gear DOESN'T end in crafting, even with materia. Sure, it is possible to make some materia gear that are unquestionably BiS, but the cost and luck needed to do that is ridiculous, plain and simple.

Did you ever try to meld 3X Tier IV materia into something? Now imagine doing that for all eight gear slots. Now imagine doing that for every class you play.

It's safe to assume that a good deal of players might be able to craft or buy one or two pieces of BiS gear with materia, some players might even craft many of these, but saying that this possibility overshadows the usefulness of raid drops is insanity, specially since many raid drops have stats that ain't even available from materia.

Raid gear will always be useful, because it's impossible to make some kind of ultimate gear set with materia only unless you're ready to dump billions of gil into it. Billions!

Edit: (ok, maybe not billions)

The fact of the matter is, people want reward through endgame this is a staple in all MMOs, they could include it through something like abjuration drops from some world or endgame NMs that would keep both crafting useful and require endgame events to be done in order to get top gear. It should not rely on something like materia, that's just lazy development

[Jeronlmo]

There is reward through endgame, 1 of your total of 2 jobs is Pld, try to beat full HDL with materia... go ahead... we can wait.

[Firon]

I'm not sure you realize what people mean by double, triple, and quad melds. Its not 4 materia over all their pieces of gear, its 4 materia melded on to one piece of gear. Melding 4 Tier IV to a piece of gear is something like a 1% chance. I, for one, have never actually seen a quad tier IV meld and I go around checking every well-geared looking player I come across. While the richest and most well respected players have one or two Tier IV triple melds, it is not common in any way.

Hell, a lot of people don't even have double melds because of how expensive the materia is and how poor they are.

Honestly the op prob doesn't even realize how good darklight gear is atm lol. OP show me some gear that beats DL gloves for whm or the DL body for mnk or the DL helm for drg.

[AdvancedWind]

The fact of the matter is, people want reward through endgame this is a staple in all MMOs, they could include it through something like abjuration drops from some world or endgame NMs that would keep both crafting useful and require endgame events to be done in order to get top gear. It should not rely on something like materia, that's just lazy development

...we get rewarded by endgame. Primal weapons are only rivaled by Relics and very few company gear combinations. most Darklight gear is pretty much BiS, even compared to very good materia melds. Some of the hamlet gear are very good, and even BiS depending on your build. Random chest acessory drops from CC/AV are BiS for some builds as well. Some company gear combos and sanction make pretty powerful gear sets.

Heck, hamlet crafting pieces are much better than anything the crafters can make themselves.

How's that not being rewarded by doing endgame? Other than the lol drop rates of a few things, I find it hard to complain about the current endgame, non materia gear.

[Xikeroth]

If you like the majority of current MMO's out there atm... you sir, are not a serious endgamer, please specify these many mmo's you have so much experience with and are speaking for every single player throughout all of them.

I'm not speaking for every player in all of them, however the fact this MMOs population is so low even after the countless changes they have made(they are good improvements no denying that) The fact the population is still low, the fact most new players don't stick around, and the simple fact that most players across MMOs don't have crafts capped is proof enough.

Take a look at current day FFXI, look how few people had a craft leveled to 100 and had items to push it further.... not very many compared to how many played the game.

I never said I liked the majority of the MMOs out there either. if I did I wouldn't be here now would I? However even if you DON'T like the way some games are or what they have, or even the low difficulty levels, some people are not stubborn to the point to realize there are SOME positive things do come out of those games.

Like the people in this game saying "WoW is terrible" yet a lot of the stuff they are introducing in this game, the same stuff those same people are blindly praising the for... is because of WoW's success, and are features from WoW or other games and the fact that though the game isn't exactly to everyone's liking it did have some positive points SE could use in their games. To refuse to realize that a lot of the stuff being put into the game, (Rested xp, content finder, how our raids are set up) All identical to how other MMO devs (not limited to blizzard but including them) have been setup for years.

I personally like how sky was setup and FFXI was my fave endgame out of every MMO Abjurations are basically a solution here. I'm sorry but I don't like the idea that someone that never leaves the city can basically buy his way almost to the top without having to draw a weapon or cast a spell.