Faster leveling N0o0o0o0o0o!

[Invalice_Vangaurd]

"...as long as you have tons of cash to spend on buying mats or time to spend on a high level crafting job gathering mats." "Ridiculously easy" would be getting that xp from the leves that you're supposed to be using to level, not having to put in a significant time and cash investment in.

I think an issue with many folks in this game is that they go the min-max path of least resistance and then complain that it's too easy. It's easy because you sought out the easiest possible way to do it, there are ways to challenge yourself that don't involve making the game a slog for everyone else playing.

So, the game should cater to those who don't put any thought into what they're doing? Or possibly don't WANT to put any thought into what they're doing? I'm sorry but I don't see what's wrong with the game being "easier" for those who actually care about learning how the game works and figuring out clever ways to use that to their advantage. I do agree that people shouldn't have to invest ridiculous amounts of time into the game just to level, but in it's current state you don't have to do that. I work full-time, go to school full-time, I'm in the military, and I have a social life...yet somehow I've managed to level up almost every crafting job to 50. And most of that was done BEFORE they made it as easy as it is now. Why don't we just have it where you start at 50? I mean seriously, give me a break.

And why exactly are leves what you're "supposed" to be using to level? Does SE think everyone should level exactly the same way now? I wasn't aware of this.

The time investment difference between grinding and doing leves has been minimal for me (unless you want to count the time it takes me to sell what I craft), especially now that there's such a huge exp bonus for level of quality. I literally got 1990 exp on a synth that was only 4 levels above me today (with no rest or scroll bonus). 1990 exp...that is absurd (in a good way). Maybe instead of wanting SE to dumb down everything people should take a few minutes to figure out what abilities and/or gear to equip that can make the game easier in it's current state. Personally I think reward should be proportional to effort/skill (including being able to efficiently use game mechanics for your own benefit).

And the Gil investment can be minimal as well with a little thought and planning. If you're smart about what you craft you will end up with more gil than you started with. I've made over 20 million gil just leveling crafting (I've probably made a lot more than this but most of what I've made has been spent on items currently in my inventory or on mules). That's without farming any materials, and vendoring a lot of stuff that I could have sold in the wards if it wasn't for lack of inventory space. Of course not that all recipes will be profitable, some will be a loss and some will be break even.

And who was complaining? That person was implying that leveling a crafting class was difficult, and all I was trying to say is that it's not that difficult, especially compared to how difficult it was before. Personally, I'm happy with the change, as I don't have the kind of free-time I had in my FFXI days. The way they did it was clever as well because they didn't simply make it easier in general, but they did make it easier for those who put in a little extra effort.

[Alhanelem]

You can't say that content is better than grinding when content in itself IS grinding.

Then allow me to rephrase: Grinding content > grinding levels.

Happy now?
I don't understand the appeal of leveling by itself, e.g. killing shiat with no objective. I don't understand how anyone could enjoy it more than doing something that might actually be challenging. You get a bigger charge out of beating that big boss or experiencing the next part of the story or what have you than you do out of doing something you have to do anyway. Leveling will happen no matter what content is in the game. It gets old long before any other content gets old.

At any given time, I have several distinct activities to choose from. It's not like leveling which is always the same.

[Jynx]

I don't understand how anyone could enjoy it more than doing something that might actually be challenging

You are making so many assumption about how leveling can/should be done.

In XI there was a distinct reward for leveling you got stronger, you watched your character grow and be able to do things he never could before take on challenges that were impossible a week or two ago. This game has none of that, your pretty much set with everyone else unless they somehow managed to play the game in a comma and not have a rank 50 something or other.

You say that content is always different, yet I don't see how leveling itself has to always be stagnant. What about differing party setups? What about the skills you learn when you level up. I just don't see where you are drawing the line of "the same" Grinding moogle/Ifrit/AV/CC is as much of "The same" instanced dungeons and boss fights as changing party and camp settings.

Don't be so closed minded on what leveling can be when you seem to have missed out on alot of what leveling has to offer. It's no less menial than the "Content" your trying to tout itself. XI had such a rich open world that unless you were just leveling to level there were so many sights to see, monster to challenge, secrets to find, ways to level (Solo, Duo, Trio, full group, BLM burns, Meele burns) Each had it's own set of awesomeness and unless you did one ad-nasuem there was always so much room to explore while you leveled your character.

Leveling is only boring if you make it boring by trying to be efficient much like our awesome "Content" forces us to be, I get no reward for going into a instance with a odd-ball setup, yet I can level with pretty much any party setup I want.

Tell me what design choice is more stale and restrictive now?

[Alhanelem]

In XI there was a distinct reward for leveling you got stronger, you watched your character grow and be able to do things he never could before take on challenges that were impossible a week or two ago. This game has none of that, your pretty much set with everyone else unless they somehow managed to play the game in a comma and not have a rank 50 something or other.

This game has all of that. What are you talking about? Leveling isn't any more or less fun in this game than it was in XI: Not much fun at all. Yes, you do get that buzz when youg et a new ability or what not, but it's what you get to do with that new stuff that really matters. If your only source of adreniline/excitement is reaching a new level, you're missing out on the functional point of leveling- controlling the flow of access to content.

If the most fun thing to do in XI was level up, then I would have quit the game a LOT earlier than I did. Leveling up is just the beginning of your adventure. People ought to look forward to more than that.

Don't be so closed minded on what leveling can be when you seem to have missed out on alot of what leveling has to offer.

Leveling doesn't have anything to offer, except that buzz when you gain a new level. But beating a new boss or enjoying a cutscene you haven't seen before or clearing that dungeon give the same or greater sense of satisfaction. What I'm not understanding is people who like doing nothing but leveling. Yes, it has it's moments, but there is so much more to any decent MMO than just leveling up.

Leveling is only boring if you make it boring by trying to be efficient

Leveling up slower than what you should be capable of is less fun than leveling up as fast as you can. So what you're telling me is in order to make leveling fun I have to make it take longer. That's a crock of whatsit. If it takes longer, the first thing I think is "oh god, whens this going to be over?"

Being efficient doesn't have to be boring. You make your own experience.

[Jeronlmo]

A party in 11 was fun, the setup mattered and changed camp to camp. Early on you basically needed a War or Pld for exp groups, later on, 37+, you could use Nin for tanking, 41 rdm got refresh, party setups changed. Here... roll-face.

Pling on 11 generally didnt even take all the skill out of a party, you could maby get rid of the healer inside the party altogether and throw in another DD depending on the party lvl/camp to up you exp/hr by another 1k or something, but the party still had to function. People did learn their jobs, if you didnt, the party failed.

Honestly... people that dont see exp groups in 11 as an event in itself prob barely played, maby only got 1-2 jobs to 75 from years of playing, and were most likely (that guy) in the group that i would have kicked within the first few mobs. Most likely the same people that hate gear swaps because it was "to hard". If you didnt use gear sets lvl37ish+, /kick.


Guess ill edit too.
Making leveling take less time, just makes it nothing. Theres no longer a reason for it to be in the game, starting from the day PLing with Mrd was disconvered in this game (specifically for us "Kobalt camp at iron lake"), my ls burned 30-40 members worth of classes to lvl 50 in about 3 days. Its pointless to have leveling in the game at this point. I should have just started at lvl 50.

I guess i should add, using something in the game like PLing, isnt us trying to ruin our own experience, the majority of us come from endgame shells in 11, and we are one here, its 100% efficient, we dont want there to be ways around stuff, but if you know about it, and dont use it, your an idiot.

Reminds me of abyssea arguments with Atma's, how atma's made abyssea so god-aweful easy and casual people telling us we should just go in with no gear on to make it more challenging, thats not making it more challenging, thats making you dumb, gimping yourself is/should never be an option. You should not build a game around the weakest link.

[Reinheart]

Mistranslation. It says *EVEN* in 2.0, which implies the rate of leveling will remain the same.

again.... http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post740686

either way now or 2.0 it's easy to 50.... so how is it mistranslation???

Probably ppl saying mistranslation because op put "FASTER" leveling in title...
It's actually same as it is just now... I'm guessing OP wanted to say in 2.0 leveling is as fast as now... not faster.

Instead of people copying one line of text should copy the whole paragraph I translated...

http://goo.gl/Tzfhp

新生でも短期間で５０になれる
５０がスタート地点っていうスタンスは変わらないみたいですね
５０になるまでの過程が楽しめるのか、ただの作業になるのか不安です
In 2.0 you can reach level 50 in short period of time.
I guess the stance where the starting point is lv 50 wont change.
Little bit worried if getting to level 50 will be fun or it's just going to be work.

[Alhanelem]

A party in 11 was fun, the setup mattered and changed camp to camp. Early on you basically needed a War or Pld for exp groups, later on, 37+, you could use Nin for tanking, 41 rdm got refresh, party setups changed. Here... roll-face.

Right. And because setup mattered, some jobs were harder to get parties with, and soloing wasn't really an option. I roll face at sitting in town for hours waiting for a party just to get 3k/hour and wipe. That's not fun. Yeah, if you built a perfect party it was fun, but most parties were not perfect, and some would be disasters. I feel more in control of my own experience in this game compared to the old style FFXI leveling.

and casual people telling us we should just go in with no gear on to make it more challenging, thats not making it more challenging,

But you were just telling me to level slower so I'd enjoy it more. To me, that's the same thing as saying "make it harder on yourself so its more fun"

You know, this is really a to each his own thing.

I don't HATE leveling, but I enjoy boss battles and raids and stuff a lot more.

[Jeronlmo]

Reinheart HAS SPOKEN!!

When i first started playing this game, lvling was fun, it would take people a month to hit lvl50 or something, the party setup was still kinda iffy though, tank/healer/random DD's didnt really matter which. That kept me busy, it was my event (before dungeons were in the game), it took a good amount of coordination, there were specific camps for each level sets, you had to travel around, kill dif types of monsters, learn different mob attacks, learn how to deal with different types of agro/spawn rates, and all that fun ended with chains.

What seems odd to me, the people that would be considered "casuals" are the people more worried about "true endgame", its more about the eepeen gear for them and getting it faster and faster, it just blows my mind they will never get that, if you dont work for it, it means nothing. Have you ever seen people running around with Garuda weapons and just think "I bet they got it from the blm burns before it was patched", well I basically say that every single day, people in full af (or worse), no materia, its just a sad sight and they should be embarrassed.

[Jeronlmo]

You feel more in control of your leveling in this game because it doesnt exist, like i said /rollface. Even in worse-case, it was maby 6k/hr in any given camp, if it was 3k/hr, prob your fault honestly. Bad party setup, dont go.

These "certain" jobs that didnt get an invite... lets say PuP, and Bst, and Smn... lol. All of these jobs, are basically solo jobs, you "wanting" it to be in a party would infact gimp the party (incomming 3k/hr). But, if you mean a job like Drk, then i could maby see the annoyance, but again, most likely your fault. I would almost bet you didnt use gear swaps, and if you did, not until lvl75.

Also, the great thing is... getting a party in 11 didnt take long, only for those that would not start a party themselves. I could have a few hours waiting to make a party before, if no whm/rdm/tank was lfp or something, but thats the only reason that should be a problem.

[Alhanelem]

Even is worse-case, it was maby 6k/hr in any given camp, if it was 3k/hr, prob your fault honestly.

Keep rolling your face, it doesn't mean anything. Yeah, every bad party is my own fault. Nice cop out.

Bad party setup, dont go.

You can't tell every party is going to be bad just because of the setup. There are unconventional setups that work, and people can do normal setups and suck ass.

You feel more in control of your leveling in this game because it doesnt exist

Not in control of my leveling- in control of my EXPERIENCE. And no, I don't mean experience points. I mean my experience- my enjoyment of the game and everything it has to offer.

Also, the great thing is... getting a party in 11 didnt take long, only for those that would not start a party themselves.

Another crock of whatsit. Forming parties could easily take just as long whether you were the leader or not.

It's great that you love leveling. You keep leveling, while I do the exciting things in this game, like beating that big scary boss when it's new without a guide or established setup or conquering the new dungeon and getting the cool drop.

We each have our own things that we like in the game, quit trying to get others to like yours if they don't. I said I don't understand the appeal of leveling, but that doesn't mean I don't respect those that prefer it. However, I shouldn't also have to suffer because you want to level slower than I do.