Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[TheVedis]

Well really, 3 times to do a 17 min run isn't all that much to complain about. After that you can do it the easier way. My beef was having absolutely no control over the shitty RNG.

But I understand your point we're all sick of the repetitive bullshit.

i hate to say it, but MMO endgames are ALL about repetetiveness, so its not something that can easily be fixed....

[Chardrizard]

I am sure SE can put 10 new dungeons with each patch in v2.0 ^^

[Deltara]

I don't mean to stir the pot, guys. But is a 17 min speed run of AV possible with a party that has every job present? Or is the only way to get it hopping around from one job to another to another for different bosses?

Don't get me wrong, I have every battle class at 50 and I will be hopping to whatever job needed to get this done when it is time. BUT, it seems against the spirit of the entire quest to be forced to level MNK to get your PLD relic weapon. Or to be forced to level every job to get one job's relic weapon.

It seems that what we are missing is the fact that a DRG relic weapon quest should be tailored around completing content on DRG.

I know alot of people will say "But you can take a dragoon and finish stuff just fine. I do it all the time on my LS [etc,etc]" but the fact of the matter remains that you cannot play in a full relic-unlocking party without several (or most) people shunning the very job whose relic they are unlocking.

This seems inherently flawed.

Like I said, I'll do what needs to be done to take care of biz, but most people wouldn't be arguing as much as they are if SE would have implemented more job-specific stuff instead of full party of monk, full party of blackmage stuff.

Most likely we'll see some of that going on later, possibly a fight with your unlocked relic weapon being used in order to unlock it, but it is a shame that it can't be integrated into more steps in the process.

[Chardrizard]

Alternatively you can still do non-17min speedrun with every class and still have chance at the item.

[Deltara]

Alternatively you can still do non-17min speedrun with every class and still have chance at the item.

But the fact of the matter remains that SE is encouraging you to not play the job whose relic you are unlocking, which is against the spirit of the quest.

[Zezlar]

Alternatively you can still do non-17min speedrun with every class and still have chance at the item.

Keep in mind that comes with a 1%ish drop rate.

[TheFatHousecat]

My inherent issue with your argument is that I feel like people use 'class stacking' much too loosely. Every instance is going to have that specific type of class setup that works best, or is most preferable by players. The good thing is that you can pretty much do all the content available with almost any setup at still be successful (if not as efficient as certain setups).

That aside, I agree. It would be really fun to have different instances/bosses to kill for every weapon, each of which is altered to be ever so slightly more efficient on said weapon's corresponding job. Obv., though, right now they can't exactly do that, and the team is sort of falling back on older content to fill in the gaps that can't be filled in until 2.0. But yeah, I'd be more than happy to see that sort of balancing and depth in the game in the future.

[Chardrizard]

Keep in mind that comes with a 1%ish drop rate.

Oh yea i know, it just that his response came up as he doesn't even have a choice and forced to do 17m run.

[Deltara]

Oh yea i know, it just that his response came up as he doesn't even have a choice and forced to do 17m run.

Maybe comment on the point that I clearly stated, rather than the "vibe" of something that wasn't clearly stated?

But the fact of the matter remains that SE is encouraging you to not play the job whose relic you are unlocking, which is against the spirit of the quest.

[Enfarious]

I am pretty sure killing something faster than normal is skill based.... It takes precision, optimized gear, skill rotation, positioning etc.... I don't know where you people bitching that doing something incredibly fast and nearly flawless isn't skill based are coming from. What exactly is your definition of skill?

I'm not opposed to speed runs myself, and I agree that they are a way of showing skill, like I said earlier(http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post730035) speed can certainly be a measure and should be rewardable.

The problem I've always seen with speed runs is that it reinforces class stacking and single successful strategies. You get back into that whole area where your not taking [job] because it doesn't do well in a speed run. This leads to exclusionary content not based on how good you are or aren't at a job but instead on what you 'want' to play as, telling the die hard PLD they can't go along because PLD sucks for [content] speed runs is like SE saying "We made this content intentionally exclusive to these classes/jobs because we don't really care about the others."

I know that's not the intent but it is the end result. Finding other ways to make a raid doable without using only speed as a bonus factor, so like someone else mentioned endurance runs, where instead of racing through you have to kill everything to spawn extra mobs that have to be killed in order to unlock a secondary boss that also has to be killed to get a bonus chest. Of course making these all delayed time so that if you clear a room in 3 mins or 8 mins it still doesn't pop the next wave of mobs until the 10 min mark removing speed running from the dungeon for those that don't want to. While you can bolt past the rooms and if you clear the dungeon in <[some time] you get the same bonus chest as the endurance run party.

The flaw with a system like this in our current setup is the delay for reentry. Because we can enter 15 mins after clear no one would want to do endurance runs given the choice since it would be less efficient. Having a change in the reentry req's, say "On success you must still wait until the raids timer would have run out +15 minutes." So that regardless of the time it takes a group to clear if you clear you still can't reenter until the normal timer would expire, a 1 hour timelimit dungeon on success would require a wait of 1 hour 15 mintues from the time of entry on success. Completely balanced playing field, speed runners get to speed run, endurance runners get to do endurance, everyone has the potential for the same rewards, based on skill; speed for full clear in <[time], slaughter for defeating >#[waves] in each section, endurance for surviving against progressively stronger enemies for an amount of time in each section.