Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[fusional]

To me, speed runs are a lazy way to add difficulty to a dungeon, nothing but artificial difficulty

not allowing any mistakes while pushing through as fast as possible is artificial difficulty? man, somebody better tell this to every F1 formula racer. they should get to run the course at their own pace, and find some other way to make it hard. because what they do is super easy otherwise. right?

[Aratharn]

It's a way out of the grind.

Doing 3 AV runs in <17mins vs doing 900+ runs with the .0125% drop rate.

It may not seem feasible initially, but if the JP blog is indeed correct then it shows it is possible.

[Req]

not allowing any mistakes while pushing through as fast as possible is artificial difficulty? man, somebody better tell this to every F1 formula racer. they should get to run the course at their own pace, and find some other way to make it hard. because what they do is super easy otherwise. right?

You aren't truely skilled at being an F1 racer unless you can solve a rubiks cube while driving.

[Murugan]

What the hell does formula-1 racing have to do with anything?

I thought we were fighting notorious beasts, dragons, and an imperial invasion. You know that we were "adventurers" I missed the message that said I signed up to play nascar online where everyone races cars (characters) that go the same exact speed, don't accelerate, and was basically just a test of who has the least amount of pit stops.

The pit crew are the ones with the real skill!

My favorite part of the epic cutscene in AV is where you trip the silent alarm, and Miser starts flushing all the loot down the toilet like the scene in Goodfellas so you gotta make sure you get to her before its gone!!!!

[Velhart]

not allowing any mistakes while pushing through as fast as possible is artificial difficulty? man, somebody better tell this to every F1 formula racer. they should get to run the course at their own pace, and find some other way to make it hard. because what they do is super easy otherwise. right?

Yes it is artificial difficulty. Any method of difficulty added would be like increasing Chimera's strength, that is changing difficulty. Someone does a Super Mario Bros. 3 speed run, is the game's difficulty itself any harder? No. The ability to get it done in a short period of time is the difficulty, not one directly toggled in the game. Other MMO's make hard mode raids, where enemies hit harder and use more abilities to create even more strategy, that is increased difficulty. All SE does for a hard mode is influence you to spam rush their dungeons to get 5 chests, the enemies are no tougher than they are, only you attempting to get it within a certain time is what scales the difficulty, no toggling handled on SE's end.

It is an ill comparison to compare it to racing. The point of racing is to be the fastest, this is not a concept not the best solution for MMO's. Sure speed runs in dungeons should be an achievement, and worthwhile in that regard, but blasting through content as fast as possible I don't believe is a fun way to go. Like I said, it isn't a right or wrong statement, it is only how I see it.

[Kiara]

My Guess for what devs are trying to do:

- Hardcore gamers will try for the 5 chest 17min run for the items

- Semi Hardcore gamers will keep on trying the 25min TA and hope they get enough items

Casual players who thought they were going to get AF weapons and not Relic weapons either gave up totally or will have to wait till level cap increase or some action/dungeon adjustments in the future where the runs can be much much easier to clear under 17min with 5 chest, kind of like running through Totorak. They will eventually get the AF weapons but almost never at same speed as those Hardcore/Semi hardcore people.

Hi Reinheart,

Yah, if this new method is true (about Under 17 Minutes SR5C), you would've hoped that the developers balanced it out slightly better than essentially "100%" or "0%" (extremes): 100% Drop for Under 17 minutes, to anything over that (even on a standard Speed Run 5C (under 25 minutes) being essentially 0%, as seen from Athalia's runs posted earlier:

We're around 100 runs finished now with 800 combined individual chests and I was the only person to get a Mythril. Everyone else has played 6 days for many hours each day and received nothing. We've tried doing things to improve drop rate but nothing seems to work.

As it stands for our group:

Me 1/100 = 1%
Everyone else 0/100 = 0%
Entire PT 1/800 = 0.125% drop rate

It's sadly a lazy way to increase challenge in an MMO, but it's certainly an easy way to do it for implementation without generating new assets or thought or design.

[DeadRiser]

I don't care if completing a dungeon as fast as you can is skill or not. IMO it's not skill. Just having people in your party that listen and know what to do. SE is stupid for considering this as a sane way to get the relics. Why couldn't they do something with the Primals? I don't think I'm ever going to waste my time with those weapons. It's not worth it until they change it.

[Reinheart]

You aren't truely skilled at being an F1 racer unless you can solve a rubiks cube while driving.

You forgot to add

and while playing Gran Turismo 5 on small screen and getting 1st place in that as well.

[Kiara]

You are forced to kill certain mobs. I don't really think it is quite 3/4ths in AV, CC maybe but its not like they are even proper trash when many of them are killed in one round of AOE.

Also skill I don't know... its still all about efficiency from the moment you enter. Even though people may blow through the bosses due to their skills at their jobs basic role, in the end the majority of that 17 minutes amounts to a race through a dungeon we've all done a hundred times with characters who all run at a set speed, there is no real skill or talent involved you can't run faster or punt lalafells with such precision that they land on the portals just perfectly. You can just run a precise route that is the fastest route from point A to B, with as little interruption as possible.

Efficiency is definitely a skill, it just isn't the skill I'd personally choose to continuously hold above all others when playing a video game for fun.

I'd rather our reaction, or more complex demands on a group's ability to work as a team be tested through endgame content.

Enjoyment> Efficiency, and first kills are always more meaningful than fastest farm kills. SE needs to get endgame back on track and provide us with a more enjoyable experience filled with memorable moments (great saves, last stands, caught off guard...backs against the wall, against all odds type moments) rather than monotony and stop watches. Which is all they have given us in dungeons so far unfortunately

Well said Murugan, Velhart.

As a fan of racing games, I recognize the challenge of Speed / Clear Times. Beating a section of the Nürburgring with a Koenigsegg CCX in under XX:XX minutes is a great challenge in Gran Turismo.

So, of course a Speed Run under 17 Minutes requires skill and efficiency, but is that really the best method for providing a challenge for players for this Relic Quest, and for Final Fantasy XIV in general?

It's certainly the easiest, laziest way for the Dev Team to implement some "new challenge" for the Relic Quest, but it's poorly thought out in terms of providing a meaningful new gameplay experience.

As Murugan said, having encounters with stuff like "great saves" or "last stands" or being ambushed (truly surprise ambushes), new boss encounters, alternate paths, shifting environments, puzzles, alternate routes, or other variables / challenges would be far more welcome than just shaving more time off the clock.

It's true, the majority of the FF XIV population probably won't be able to complete this 17 minute challenge, but one would hope they designed a better step for the Relic Quest at this point (and in general).

[Sagagemini]

This thread is certainly not worth a dev response. Specifically because they're in a full lose/lose situation. Whatever they say here will be met only with hathred and flames so regardless of what they're doing with all of this feedback, until they got some miraculous words to say here that can defacto contribute (i'm sure everyone would rage if they simply said 'we're working on it' because people always do that) they're keeping shut

Edit: Also the site on your signature is on maitenance

Yea, sorry about the website lol.
I'm working on it!

And I agree with you, people would probably rage regardless of what they say, but it's still nice to know they are paying attention and understand our frustration.
Me, personally, i'd rather see a "We'll fix it in 2.0" then no answer at all. lol