Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[TheVedis]

MMk it was 500k for 3 years before Abyssea, so everyone was right. I just overestimated by maybe a ~year, it was 500k for awhile long enough for me to have erased the memories of 1mil.

Wasn't the point still that it was attainable and in measurable amounts as opposed to a luck based system w/ what @most 8 chests in hamlet that drop items that can't be passed/traded/sold, a luck based synth, a luck based double meld, a luck based mat drop same 8 chests that drop but can't be passed traded or sold.

Yes dyna had RNG, it also placed 500(no I've never counted) mobs for you to attempt that RNG on and each could drop 0~3 singles and 0~1 100(likely fuck no but it did happen). So in the end you could pretty safely say that, assuming you were in a shell that did build weapons for each person in turn and sold only what was needed for lamps. You could say that each run you gained, 50/run @1mil/lamp, and 100/run @500k/lamp. So the math I put out there earlier, aside from my not remembering a 1mil point is right for the 2~3 years prior to dyna reforms. ~100/run x 100 runs with no currency bought. It's 50 weeks, < 1 year. I can also say I don't know anyone that did a straight farm for them until after the reform that made entry free and everyday for, if you knew how, ~300/day in lowman and even solo.

but essentialy, if you want to use dynamis as an example, you really do have to use the "back then" stats of it and not the "now" version of it because the now version of it is the way it is because everything there is so irrelevant

so 1mil per entry is still what we look at
and doing it every 3 days is still what we have to look at unfortunately if you even want to come close to comparing it

every aspect of it from that point of view makes it take alot longer in almost every single aspect to complete then the hamlet end of things does now, hell even every other aspect of it will still probly take tons longer in comparison to the whole process now.

the fact that people who are grinding it a ton are at such a late stage in the quest says alot since its only been a week, that alone says that that it really isnt that bad for people who truely work towards it.

even with rng, doing it more will eventualy yield you results, if rng was such a bad factor, those groups doing it together that were so determined to get it done asap would still be working at it because they whould be getting 0 drops cuz "rng is so bad" like some people claim

granted, rng IS bad on the low end of the scale for LOW POINT RUNS, but in higher point runs, with an orginized group, rng isnt a factor at all in the hamlet end of things.

and even with melding, yes you can get really bad luck, but that same bad luck can be had with a 90% chance to meld too, so again, it isnt the section people should worry about.

at that point its going to come down to the drop rate in av/cc, which only a few people are commenting on, the same people who went out of their way to make sure theyd get their asap.....once more people get there we will get more results on how good or bad the rates can be(for now all we know is they are bad form the 1 or 2 people on it who actualy post here)


but overall, up to that point, people are MAJORLY overreacting to this seriously

[Estellios]

Hi Estellios,

But you see, that's just it: You got the Lucky Dice Roll and got 3 Seals in 4 Tries. Congrats (seriously) and I'm happy for you.

But it's just luck.

I posted my results last weekend (3 full days & losing sleep) going 0/25 on Primal Seals. ZERO.

There's a JP Player I've seen at every Hamlet Defense I go to and we ended up in the same PUG last Sunday. I asked them how their Seal collecting was going: 1 Primal Seal for about ~1.5 WEEKS worth of grinding (whenever it was in Stage 2).

I have a JP friend who runs their own JP LS to do content. As the LS Leader (he lets everyone keep their own drops), he got ZERO Seals last weekend running Hamlet Defense non-stop. And I know another JP friend who got all 9 Seals the week before already (spending far less time) and is doing AV/CC non-stop.

How is this fine or OK?

It's great for those that got the Lucky Dice Roll. For everyone else, sorry, it's *not* "OK" or "fine."

And hearing Sniper and others talk about AV/CC's Relic Item Drop Rate sounds even more depressing.

Ultimately, if Yoshida-san wants to rely on *some* Luck / RNG, that's his choice and I think it's ~Ok if used sparingly. But too many steps of this Relic Weapon Quest rely on the Random Number Generator (most of it).

You guys must not be getting a high score or someone isn't saying they got a seal when they did, or your luck must be astronomically low. Almost all the people that have been posting in this thread doing seal farming have said how often the seals drop.

Maybe there is a glitch with the drop rates on your server, if it is that bad.

I'm not saying that I love having to rely on luck, hell I think they should make seals 100% drop if you get 60k+ since they practically are for most people. The drop rate is really not that bad currently, not enough that people are getting mad about, something is just really up with your group. Like I said, maybe it is a glitch and you should post about it so they can check it out.

The dungeon drop rate is more deserving of hatred, unless there is some hidden factor that makes it drop more often.

[Enfarious]

Used to be 1 mill.

Not like that mattered though there were only so many Dynamis shells on the server and you couldn't just get up and enter because the zones were allowed only one party at a time.

Randomly entering dynamis was a good way to get your group blacklisted on the entire server for screwing up larger shells dynamis scheduels. Hell you would be lucky to get enough currency to make a decent profit especially if you were getting the lower currency on your server. (Odin was all about byne bills being worthless) yet you could hardly buy them because people were hording their cash even if they would never get the relic they were holding on to it for dear life.

It's not as simple as you make it sounds, it's part of the reason only a litteral handfull of people ever had relic weapons (Obviously until they made it soloable in Abysea lol)

Then you did have to fight the RNG when you got to your attestations, wich in itself was hard enough to convince even your sponsored shell to do, attestations runs were much less profitable and much harder. You could always tells them to screw themselves and you would find another shell....and then the 100's of others waiting to sponsor a shell would take over for you and you would become one of those 100's waiting for a shell to sponsor again.

Relic Weapons weren't just currency, they had a ton of other things that limited the average player from getting them. It's a far from perfect system and needs to stop being used as a comparable system for FFXIV relics. While the current Relic system is a bit bunk in areas at least everyone gets a fair chance instead of having to be the lucky (and rediculously rich) guy sponsor a shell.

I think in the process of using Dyna(as so many others have) things have been skewed horribly. Read the rest, we said it was 1mil for years then 500k for years then free and daily. To go into the mechanics of 1 64man group at a time, also changed, currency from server to server pricing changed. We know the point which is so easily being over looked is that, at no point did you fail to get anything when you went and did even halfway decent. If your stuck on what happened to you back in '05 I'm sorry it went poorly. I'm sorry you payed more than others or struggled to buy your currency do to horders. W/E get past that and come back around to the point.

'08~'11(Until empy90s) relic and mythic was still the best things going, and even now they aren't bad if you put in the time. The cost was 500k after it WAS 1mil but before abyssea, after abyssea some time it became free. I never went on a run that went well that walked w/ less than 150 currency total, usually closer to 200, sell the cost of the lamp, again sorry if you happened to be on a 2k/piece server, not really though because it means that your only paying 2k a piece toward your relic too.

Post free daily dyna 300+ runs for lowman was the norm, I'm not comparing that you'll notice. You may also notice that I'm not picking any ONE part of current questline, I'm talking about RNG garbage period being included in it as the difficulty marker and time determination.

FFS ppl let go of this nit picky shit and look at the over arching point. Unless you've found a way to consistently beat the RNG then please do tell.

[Kiara]

You guys must not be getting a high score or someone isn't saying they got a seal when they did, or your luck must be astronomically low. Almost all the people that have been posting in this thread doing seal farming have said how often the seals drop.

Maybe there is a glitch with the drop rates on your server, if it is that bad.

I'm not saying that I love having to rely on luck, hell I think they should make seals 100% drop if you get 60k+ since they practically are for most people. The drop rate is really not that bad currently, not enough that people are getting mad about, something is just really up with your group. Like I said, maybe it is a glitch and you should post about it so they can check it out.

The dungeon drop rate is more deserving of hatred, unless there is some hidden factor that makes it drop more often.

Hi Estellios,

In the earlier post a few days ago, I posted all the specifics: 25 Runs (22 were 65,000+ Points, 3 were 50,000+ (due to some mixups in killing the key mobs)).

I know at least 8 separate people personally (different LSs, different servers) that went on streaks of over 50 Wins with Zero Drops on Ifrit (for themselves). Yet I helped 2 different people get their Ifrit's Axe on their *first* win.

It's probably just bad luck and the Random Number Generator at work. But that's what many on this thread are talking about.

I just wish they found more ways to incorporate more skill, effort and fairness vs. Random / Luck.

[Dzian]

but essentialy, if you want to use dynamis as an example, you really do have to use the "back then" stats of it and not the "now" version of it because the now version of it is the way it is because everything there is so irrelevant

so 1mil per entry is still what we look at
and doing it every 3 days is still what we have to look at unfortunately if you even want to come close to comparing it

every aspect of it from that point of view makes it take alot longer in almost every single aspect to complete then the hamlet end of things does now, hell even every other aspect of it will still probly take tons longer in comparison to the whole process now.

the fact that people who are grinding it a ton are at such a late stage in the quest says alot since its only been a week, that alone says that that it really isnt that bad for people who truely work towards it.

even with rng, doing it more will eventualy yield you results, if rng was such a bad factor, those groups doing it together that were so determined to get it done asap would still be working at it because they whould be getting 0 drops cuz "rng is so bad" like some people claim

granted, rng IS bad on the low end of the scale for LOW POINT RUNS, but in higher point runs, with an orginized group, rng isnt a factor at all in the hamlet end of things.

and even with melding, yes you can get really bad luck, but that same bad luck can be had with a 90% chance to meld too, so again, it isnt the section people should worry about.

at that point its going to come down to the drop rate in av/cc, which only a few people are commenting on, the same people who went out of their way to make sure theyd get their asap.....once more people get there we will get more results on how good or bad the rates can be(for now all we know is they are bad form the 1 or 2 people on it who actualy post here)


but overall, up to that point, people are MAJORLY overreacting to this seriously

while i don't deny that people are making progress it doesn't change the fact that it's still pure luck. with zero fairness at all. yes you can double meld a weapon but if it takes 1 guy 1 attempt and another guy 10 its unfair. if it takes 1 guy 50 hamlets to get sealss and another guy 500 its unfair.

the system needs to done in a fair methodology where people can see a level of progress that is equal to everyone else. not a system where you can grind the crap out of it and have some guy come along and get his stuff in a fraction of your time.

seeing as everyone relates to xi relic system. the system as is would in xi essentially be the goblin guy telling one guy hey you need 10 100 pieces to upgrade your amano. then telling the next guy he needs 80 for the same upgrade. both can still progress but its far from fair.

no matter how much you sugar coat the current system its luck luck luck every step of the way. doesn't stop people making progress but i can guarantee that everyones put in a different amount of work and effort to get tot he same stage and it shouldnt be that way. every person on stage 5 should have done the exact same work and effort as every other person to get to stage 5 and the same for stage 10 etc

2 things people are asking for. progress and a fair system.

[Kinseykinz]

You guys must not be getting a high score or someone isn't saying they got a seal when they did, or your luck must be astronomically low. Almost all the people that have been posting in this thread doing seal farming have said how often the seals drop.

Maybe there is a glitch with the drop rates on your server, if it is that bad.

I'm not saying that I love having to rely on luck, hell I think they should make seals 100% drop if you get 60k+ since they practically are for most people. The drop rate is really not that bad currently, not enough that people are getting mad about, something is just really up with your group. Like I said, maybe it is a glitch and you should post about it so they can check it out.

The dungeon drop rate is more deserving of hatred, unless there is some hidden factor that makes it drop more often.

I can attest that I have seen Kia out grinding the Hamlets...so she's def. putting in the time. And while I am not in their group, it is a solid group of players that should be getting 60K+ fairly consistantly. I don't know how they are handling drops of course, but I can say based on my experience so far, I have yet to actually have a seal actually drop into my inventory for the 3-5 hours i spend every night getting consistant 60K+ wins with my group. (Usually with a top 20 provisioner in the group to boot). So if people 'keep their drops' I'd still have yet to get one personally, even though I see a seal drop to someone in the party every 3 battles or so. So it IS possible to just get that screwed.

With luck, I'll get my first seal tonight (it's my turn in the drop rotation to get one). But the only reason I can say that is because the group I play with has decided, everyone gets 1 seal first, then everyone can have 2...etc. But this only works if you static and play with folks you trust.

...and this is the first step. Imagine how sucky the CC/AV drops are gonna be when you can't pass them to eachother.


Keep in mind it's the RNG system I hate, not the difficulty or grind. But it IS possible for people to have been grinding Hamlets during all their freetime, getting 60K+scores w/ a top provisioner and still have nothing to show for it. Just because you/your group got more lucky doesn't make it better for the folks who are on the low end of the scale.

@Dazian AMEN...

[Chardrizard]

You guys must not be getting a high score or someone isn't saying they got a seal when they did, or your luck must be astronomically low. Almost all the people that have been posting in this thread doing seal farming have said how often the seals drop.

Maybe there is a glitch with the drop rates on your server, if it is that bad.

I'm not saying that I love having to rely on luck, hell I think they should make seals 100% drop if you get 60k+ since they practically are for most people. The drop rate is really not that bad currently, not enough that people are getting mad about, something is just really up with your group. Like I said, maybe it is a glitch and you should post about it so they can check it out.

The dungeon drop rate is more deserving of hatred, unless there is some hidden factor that makes it drop more often.

Hes pointing out his personal rate to justifies his view. The seals probably drop but just to other people and not him.

[Quatre]

Seal Drop Rate is fine, and like above poster said, a lot of people use the "Keep it if it goes to your inventory" system. I'm personally part of a LS Alliance where we have give or take ~15 people whoever is on coming in and out of the hamlets. All runs are 60k. We went 8/11 the other night, which was awesome. We also went 1/8 @ Aleport, which was not so awesome. The problem with any kind of RNG Drop-rate is that there IS the chance you're gonna get jipped.


Let's be thankful it isnt the Primal loot system where they drop directly into your inventory. LOL


However, I think you should be able to buy the seals with Hamlet points. That way those getting 68k seals a run will complete it much faster

[Zezlar]

You guys are complaining about the wrong part of the quest. Seal drop rate is a billion times better then this Mythril.

[Madruk]

One mythril drop out of 344 individual chests. This type of troll shit on their part is asinine. If you don't want us to progress deeper into the quest right now, don't put it in at all.