Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[Deku]

I'm actually really sick of the RNG system. It really disappoints me to see that developers took absolutely no feedback from players regarding the RNG system. Why exactly was the relic weapon quest delayed again? To figure out more ways to depress us?

I do find your answer here funny that we will have a better system in 2.0. Saying we will have the G/N/P system and all, which is great to that. Unfortunately, I am not playing 2.0 right now, I am playing 1.22b. Every time people bring this up, you give us nothing but vague answers to what we want to know.

Let me ask these questions SE, and I would love to hear you justify this...

Why does someone who did the dungeons half as much as me have a full set of Darklight (almost two sets), and I only have a pair of damn gloves? How is it fair that all the effort and time I wasted in your buggy dungeons for almost nothing? Please don't tell me "Just keep doing it!". No, just no. I have successfully beaten CC/AV together 450+ times. That is over 449 times I have been disappointed SE, 449 times.

On Ifrit, I had beaten him over 200 times. Never got my Ifrit Blade. Look to the previous paragraph, same way I felt when I did this.

What upsets me the most is you actually put a good system in Garuda where you had tokens go towards a certain goal. Why in the hell was this not implemented into the relic weapons quest? I was starting to think the team was starting to finally get the picture. Apparently not.

While Hamlet Defense seals are not the worst thing in the world to get, it still faults itself by not dropping in appropriate places. If a team get 60k+ points, it should be guaranteed a seal. It upsets me we put the hard work in to get 60k+ and all we have to show for it is a head piece that everyone and their mother now owns.

I currently have a Mailbreaker in my inventory right now. Deciding to not attempt to double meld it until I get all nine of my seals, hoping the Acc+ materia drops in price by the time I get them. I am just scared I am going to be screwed over by the RNG system once again to double meld this. I just have a feeling I am going to get screwed over on this and go through 10 of them before I actually succeed.

And then we fall into the RNG system again for the six items you need from Miser and Chimera, which people are already confirming is an extremely crappy drop rate. I really feel like I am just being heavily played at this point.

How come other games made successful and hard methods to getting legendary weapons while playing it at fair game? Hell, your previous game, FFXI, was able to pull this off also. How long SE till you realize we don't want the RNG system at all? No one wants it, and the only people who do want it are people who are actually lucky or people who don't understand the concept of hard work and effort.

You can stop calling this a theme park, it is only a casino. At a theme park, you get in line, it is a long line, but you know if you know you are guaranteed to get on that ride eventually. At a casino, you either come out with something, or you don't.

Here is my request. I want a fair progression system for 1.xx, I do not want to wait for 2.0 for this. You need to make the next set of relic quests not based around this awful system. You need to make it difficult and fair that bases itself off small progression meeting a bigger goal. I don't want to pull a lever and hope for the best. It is just wrong and there is absolutely no way to justify this system, absolutely none.

I want to hear a direct and detailed response on why the team feels it is necessary that we have to deal with this system. Why they feel that they can't at least put in a token system for dungeons and other primals. I really want to hear a response. So reps, if you see this, and actually care, please urge SE to come out and give a better and more detailed answer to this than what vague statements you have been giving us.

Sorry long post. Here is a tl;dr version. >_>

I read some of that, but sorry not dedicating an hour to reading it all... all I hear is someone who is upset because they aren't getting exactly what they want, when they want it.

You are right, you are playing a non 2.0 version of FFXIV... SO WHAT? For god sake, they can't make it over night. They are focusing on the big picture, and not little temporary quick fixes which would be a waste of TIME and MONEY.

Stop crying! Either play the game now, and deal with it until 2.0... or DON'T PLAY, and come back when 2.0 comes out.

[viion]

I read some of that, but sorry not dedicating an hour to reading it all... all I hear is someone who is upset because they aren't getting exactly what they want, when they want it.

You are right, you are playing a non 2.0 version of FFXIV... SO WHAT? For god sake, they can't make it over night. They are focusing on the big picture, and not little temporary quick fixes which would be a waste of TIME and MONEY.

Stop crying! Either play the game now, and deal with it until 2.0... or DON'T PLAY, and come back when 2.0 comes out.

Heh deal with it in 2.0

Did you know, they had the right frame of mind in Garuda but did not fix Ifrit which would take 2 seconds, nore did the apply they same method to relic after?

Doesnt matter about 2.0 the frame of mind and design choices will stay no matter what version of the game where in, if he favours RNG now he will favour RNG later.

And dont be be a little uptard kid to someone if you cannot even be bothered to read their post.

[Velhart]

I read some of that, but sorry not dedicating an hour to reading it all... all I hear is someone who is upset because they aren't getting exactly what they want, when they want it.

You are right, you are playing a non 2.0 version of FFXIV... SO WHAT? For god sake, they can't make it over night. They are focusing on the big picture, and not little temporary quick fixes which would be a waste of TIME and MONEY.

Stop crying! Either play the game now, and deal with it until 2.0... or DON'T PLAY, and come back when 2.0 comes out.

I pay 9.99 a month for 1.xx right now, I will complain about it all I like.

And if you decided to read my entire post (which you shouldn't reply to unless you did). I in no way, shape, or form want easy content at all. All I want is the idea of knowing that each night I am progressing towards a goal, big or small, and in the future, I know I am guaranteed my prize if I keep working every night. In RNG, I may have to deal with the fact I won't ever get the piece I want before 2.0, which is pretty upsetting for all the nights I put into this game.

[Airget]

Relic isn't solo content, and non of it is solo content. The design of Relics is heavily based on the idea of community and while the "lucK" may suck it's only as bad as your weakest link when it comes to completing each task.

If you have a stable group of 8 any of the melee content is easy to do.

If you have crafters who can supply you with gear then you can have an easier time bonding gear to obtain IV materia.

If you have crafters who can make the weapon then you can get said weapon for a greatly reduced price and double melded on the spot.

If you lack the pillars which support the objective of a Relic of course it'll seem like a tough task, but when you have a group that works together to get the task done it's much easier.

Even when it came to relic/mythic/empyrean it wasn't one person who worked on obtaining the weapon, it was the LS working as a group to obtain the weapon a majority of the time, while there were those who did do it solo through earning gil and buying everything themselves they still needed help when it came down to doing the battle portions of said content. With the above it's not like it was done in a month (cept for empy) but to obtain the relic/mythic took months of work/luck to find what you needed through bazaars and to spend your money as wisely as possible.

Stop thinking of relics as "Man this is so tough to do by myself" and think of it more as something you do with your community of friends to accomplish. Are you going to deny the fact that it's easier to obtain relics when you have friends to help you then if you are someone trying to do it through pickup groups and lving your own crafts to do it all by yourself rather then the aid of your community of friends?

[Deku]

I pay 9.99 a month for 1.xx right now, I will complain about it all I like.

And if you decided to read my entire post (which you shouldn't reply to unless you did). I in no way, shape, or form want easy content at all. All I want is the idea of knowing that each night I am progressing towards a goal, big or small, and in the future, I know I am guaranteed my prize if I keep working every night. In RNG, I may have to deal with the fact I won't ever get the piece I want before 2.0, which is pretty upsetting for all the nights I put into this game.

True enough.

I came from almost a decade of FFXI, so this all just seems a little jibberish to me whatever the case is, though.

It took me years to get a relic, and also took me years to get my Ridill, before I even started my relic. (by "relic" I don't mean the base item, I mean the upgraded item. It was a huge grind in the long run whatever the case was).

[Deku]

Heh deal with it in 2.0

Did you know, they had the right frame of mind in Garuda but did not fix Ifrit which would take 2 seconds, nore did the apply they same method to relic after?

Doesnt matter about 2.0 the frame of mind and design choices will stay no matter what version of the game where in, if he favours RNG now he will favour RNG later.

And dont be be a little uptard kid to someone if you cannot even be bothered to read their post.

uptard kid.... haha okay.

Now that we have established the mature one, here...

[hrdndv]

First problem with this thread is the stress on RNG. Battle mechanics run of RNG. It is a good thing. The problem is balance. Games should never have a desired result with a probability of .001 - this probability may be theoretically possible but RNGs are notorious for skipping certain results because they are not truely random. This means that an RNG might never produce the rare drop because of strange factors... like something unique in the initializing number. One of the worst initializing numbers is exact time an action was initiated. Leads to weird results. All game mechanics should be driven by random number tables with flat probability curves for the table coordinates. Most games never implemented this scheme. The alternative to using tables is using probabilities of no rarer than .01 and hoping it doesn't gap too often. Rare events are not random. It is very hard to generate true random numbers... probably impossible. So...
Players have a good point. The rare drop rate for items needed to produce Relic Weapons is discouraging. It is not fun.

[Velhart]

First problem with this thread is the stress on RNG. Battle mechanics run of RNG. It is a good thing. The problem is balance. Games should never have a desired result with a probability of .001 - this probability may be theoretically possible but RNGs are notorious for skipping certain results because they are not truely random. This means that an RNG might never produce the rare drop because of strange factors... like something unique in the initializing number. One of the worst initializing numbers is exact time an action was initiated. Leads to weird results. All game mechanics should be driven by random number tables with flat probability curves for the table coordinates. Most games never implemented this scheme. The alternative to using tables is using probabilities of no rarer than .01 and hoping it doesn't gap too often. Rare events are not random. It is very hard to generate true random numbers... probably impossible. So...
Players have a good point. The rare drop rate for items needed to produce Relic Weapons is discouraging. It is not fun.

Right. There will always be some element of luck in a game, but make the system based off of it is where it went all wrong. In other MMO's, lets say a boss has 15 really good items, but only drops three of them, someone is guaranteed to walk out happy each time (of course cooldowns added to the boss so you can't just spam him). If you didn't get what you want, you were at least guaranteed tokens so you could purchase other items you are seeking. I hope a similar concept comes to FFXIV.

Overall, you need to be rewarded "something" worthwhile each run. The amount of complaints would drop dramatically if they just added a token system to dungeons and possibly relics.

[Delmontyb]

Ummm the token system exists already.... Primals use it. I dont assume that its there, IT IS THERE, Fact.

I also dont think you read the interview where he said they would use more of this stuff, as well as Need/Greed and then more different systems, so why you say they will be more random? I know N/G is random in some sense but you get a much higher chance as items are not forced into someone inventory or pool.

Also dont pull this "as a developer myself" crap lolol

I think Doho responded with the right answer. Also marking it in red doesn't make it fact, still keeps it as "theory". You are making so many assumptions in your rebuttal.

I don't get where you got the idea that I said things will be "more random", so if you care to elaborate I can respond.

Thanks.

[Delmontyb]

The system is present to do what everyone here is talking about. Everyone gets their own chest(primals, new mats from dungeons). Drop rate adjustments, which they obviously set. Tokens 100% from that individual chest, Garuda. None of these are "new" to this game, they just weren't implemented for these weapons. Rather than offer up gauranteed progress with a win they gave us "Step right up step right up and try your luck." Wait that's carnival stuff, "Slot machine" progress, you win you pull the lever maybe you get something.

You can make everyone not pissed. While they may not be happy they will not be disappointed by the blatant flaw in a system.

I agree 100%, it is possible to do that, and yes they could have done this better. But that still comes down to a list of priorities.

At the end of the day, the system is what it is, from the interviews I can see them bringing in some updates in the c patch or even 1.23, but I don't see any real changes until the 2.0 beta and then the release. And by real I mean the big changes.