Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[Delmontyb]

I saw this, but I just dont get it, we have Token systems in game now (Primals) with Garuda being the best one. Yet some how he didnt apply the same thing to the relic even though he says he wants to apply that type of stuff in 2.0, dont get it, seems like he is saying what we'd like to hear.

But what does it matter, people will luck out and get relics all over by 2.0 and it be another meaningless non-rare weapon and those who tried over and over will be screwed over as usual until they eventually luck out.

You assume that there is all kinds of content and systems for 1.0, when we already know that 1.0 is hard to develop for, and create for, heck, look how long it took them to pull 1.0 around.

As a developer, I myself understand this... Do we focus more resources to something we are turning off in 4-6 months, or do we focus our efforts on new systems, and contents.

The basic idea for development is developing a strong "Core" to the game, from there, if you've done your job it becomes easy to expand off of that core. (I recently developed some software and version 1.0 was hard to expand, so we also did a 2.0 change, and from that we re-built the app to be more flexible and expandable, and now it's easy to add new features etc).

So from the current relic system, there are two options.
1. This system isn't perfect, so let's delay it until 2.0 - people will complain.
2. This system is tedious but it works and it will give players something to do until 2.0 - people will complain.

Yoshi-P has said multiple times that his effort and focus is on 2.0, and he will come back from patch to patch and direct 1.0, but 1.0 still has the "ghost of Tanaka" and the post said.

Personally, and IMO, his reference to a "token" type system refers to what people have called "karma" where you do the events, but the drop stays low, however, the more you do it the greater the chances of the drop.

While we don't have 2.0 to compare and contrast the development styles of Yoshi-P and Tanaka, I see one of two things happening come 2.0.

1. 2.0 will be more of the same with RNG, and whatnot...
2. Yoshi-P will deliver a game that will surprise a lot of people.

Ether way, he's doomed by the forums.

You can't make everyone happy.

[viion]

You assume that there is all kinds of content and systems for 1.0, when we already know that 1.0 is hard to develop for, and create for, heck, look how long it took them to pull 1.0 around.

Ummm the token system exists already.... Primals use it. I dont assume that its there, IT IS THERE, Fact.

I also dont think you read the interview where he said they would use more of this stuff, as well as Need/Greed and then more different systems, so why you say they will be more random? I know N/G is random in some sense but you get a much higher chance as items are not forced into someone inventory or pool.

Also dont pull this "as a developer myself" crap lolol

[Doho]

Ummm the token system exists already.... Primals use it. I dont assume that its there, IT IS THERE, Fact.

Actually, the only proper token system in place right now would be Garuda, no? Seeing as Kupo Nut Charms/Inferno Totems can be as random/rare as the weapons themselves. Why they haven't made them 100% by now is beyond me.

[Enfarious]

...
they already stated that relics are long-term goal/achievements. read: LONG-TERM! its not something to be done in a week!

Long term should mean long term, not randomly decided amount of time based on how lucky you are or aren't on any given day.

You assume that there is all kinds of content and systems for 1.0, when we already know that 1.0 is hard to develop for, and create for, heck, look how long it took them to pull 1.0 around.
...
You can't make everyone happy.

The system is present to do what everyone here is talking about. Everyone gets their own chest(primals, new mats from dungeons). Drop rate adjustments, which they obviously set. Tokens 100% from that individual chest, Garuda. None of these are "new" to this game, they just weren't implemented for these weapons. Rather than offer up gauranteed progress with a win they gave us "Step right up step right up and try your luck." Wait that's carnival stuff, "Slot machine" progress, you win you pull the lever maybe you get something.

You can make everyone not pissed. While they may not be happy they will not be disappointed by the blatant flaw in a system.

Actually, the only proper token system in place right now would be Garuda, no? Seeing as Kupo Nut Charms/Inferno Totems can be as random/rare as the weapons themselves. Why they haven't made them 100% by now is beyond me.

Yeah what is that about. I'd have 9 Ifrit weapons by now if he actually dropped totems, well dropped them regularly.

[Delmontyb]

The system is present to do what everyone here is talking about. Everyone gets their own chest(primals, new mats from dungeons). Drop rate adjustments, which they obviously set. Tokens 100% from that individual chest, Garuda. None of these are "new" to this game, they just weren't implemented for these weapons. Rather than offer up gauranteed progress with a win they gave us "Step right up step right up and try your luck." Wait that's carnival stuff, "Slot machine" progress, you win you pull the lever maybe you get something.

You can make everyone not pissed. While they may not be happy they will not be disappointed by the blatant flaw in a system.

I agree 100%, it is possible to do that, and yes they could have done this better. But that still comes down to a list of priorities.

At the end of the day, the system is what it is, from the interviews I can see them bringing in some updates in the c patch or even 1.23, but I don't see any real changes until the 2.0 beta and then the release. And by real I mean the big changes.

[Velhart]

I agree 100%, it is possible to do that, and yes they could have done this better. But that still comes down to a list of priorities.

At the end of the day, the system is what it is, from the interviews I can see them bringing in some updates in the c patch or even 1.23, but I don't see any real changes until the 2.0 beta and then the release. And by real I mean the big changes.

Their priority is keeping us happy. Pretty much the main point of 1.xx right now is to hold us over till 2.0 comes. They are trying to keep their customers. RNG only influences people to eventually give up and stop playing. I believe this is a priority.

[Delmontyb]

Their priority is keeping us happy. Pretty much the main point of 1.xx right now is to hold us over till 2.0 comes. They are trying to keep their customers. RNG only influences people to eventually give up and stop playing. I believe this is a priority.

Good point.

And I agree, not a big fan of RNG. If it was tied with some of the suggestions of the OP then I believe it will work better.

[Sigmakan]

Their priority is keeping us happy. Pretty much the main point of 1.xx right now is to hold us over till 2.0 comes. They are trying to keep their customers. RNG only influences people to eventually give up and stop playing. I believe this is a priority.

I think they've lost sight of that. They've been so concerned with prolonging content that they made a loot system that has really embittered many people towards the game (at least in our LS)

[Enfarious]

I agree 100%, it is possible to do that, and yes they could have done this better. But that still comes down to a list of priorities.

At the end of the day, the system is what it is, from the interviews I can see them bringing in some updates in the c patch or even 1.23, but I don't see any real changes until the 2.0 beta and then the release. And by real I mean the big changes.

It's not a big change to re-implement something that's already present, it's a mater of a function call or 2. Changing a chest to have 1 100% item isn't possible but would require a lot of work, it's already a mechanic that's present in every primal, we get DM 100%. I'm not sure what exactly these changes you speak of are.

Let's just call this for what it is. Poor design plans, had they taken what is already there and moved a decimal point this thread would never have started. They chose to backpedal from the system that people thanked them for in Garuda to what people have been outraged by since the first dungeon/Primal. That's just bad planning and a bad idea for a game that's "For the players"

Edit: Keep in mind that they have modified drop rates many times before and it does not involve months of rewriting the instance. I'll make an assumption, and probably not horribly wrong one, that they have a map design and script for each of the instances that we have at present, those scripts while they may be long should be seperate for each instance and therefore not all that hard to modify. Again assuming good coding practices those scripts are relatively well documented for future devs that work on them. What's more is that in the name of streamlining content development, and this may or may not have happened for 1.xx, you'd typically make a stand alone content builder for designing and modifiying those scripts making it still easier to modify a thing. To assume on further thing, drop rates for each item are set and can be relatively easily modified at a later date, making something 100% under certain circumstances should not be that hard to add to your scripts, running drop rate variables for each of the big items and as you complete scripted conditions those variables are increased. If they can do it to add chests to the win they can do it to change drop rates for those chests.

[Kiara]

It's not a big change to re-implement something that's already present, it's a mater of a function call or 2. Changing a chest to have 1 100% item isn't possible but would require a lot of work, it's already a mechanic that's present in every primal, we get DM 100%. I'm not sure what exactly these changes you speak of are.

Let's just call this for what it is. Poor design plans, had they taken what is already there and moved a decimal point this thread would never have started. They chose to backpedal from the system that people thanked them for in Garuda to what people have been outraged by since the first dungeon/Primal. That's just bad planning and a bad idea for a game that's "For the players"

Edit: Keep in mind that they have modified drop rates many times before and it does not involve months of rewriting the instance. I'll make an assumption, and probably not horribly wrong one, that they have a map design and script for each of the instances that we have at present, those scripts while they may be long should be seperate for each instance and therefore not all that hard to modify. Again assuming good coding practices those scripts are relatively well documented for future devs that work on them. What's more is that in the name of streamlining content development, and this may or may not have happened for 1.xx, you'd typically make a stand alone content builder for designing and modifiying those scripts making it still easier to modify a thing. To assume on further thing, drop rates for each item are set and can be relatively easily modified at a later date, making something 100% under certain circumstances should not be that hard to add to your scripts, running drop rate variables for each of the big items and as you complete scripted conditions those variables are increased. If they can do it to add chests to the win they can do it to change drop rates for those chests.

Agreed.

To those saying it might be too much work for the Dev Team:

The Dev Team has already put in a special chest and scripted in a 100% Drop Rate for the Best Chest in Hamlet and it's already in the game. Changing the item to be a Primal Seal instead of Militia Barbut / Hat / Armet (and changing the Value Check for # of Seals to turn in) isn't going to derail the Development Team. It's already there; it's just the value that needs to be changed.

Other suggestions in this thread to make things more challenging or having some other ways to have measurable progress each time reuse existing assets and are also reasonable. No one's asking for a brand-new Reward Systems, or a string of Quests with amazing New Cinematics, Brand New 3D Models, Areas for the Relic (it would be nice, but of course it's not feasible with 2.0 being finished up).