Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[Enfarious]

I totally agree but 90% of the rage on this OP is in the assumption that there was/is never going to be any adjustment to that even without our outrage. We know the good nuts and bolts of this system will stay, they could easily adjust drop rates like you say after 2.0. Couldn't it be that this had to go in now because its part of an ordered process to the restructuring of the game? There is a ton we don't know in order for us to be acting this way. I mean, you can't even finish the actual quest yet.

Yes. That's the short answer.
Really though, they made it obvious they weren't locked into a preexisting drop system when they gave us Garuda.
I think probably the part, and looking back over random pages most if not all are more upset about the idea of randomness being such a large factor, especially the class weapon > double meld part. Drops I/we(mostly) will get over just like we always have if they're not horribly unreasonable or we get something, however small, that let's us have a genuine sense of progression. This is just get your seals and how much gil do you have to finish it. Will the seals take time yeah, the middle is pure chance with no reward but very real consequences for failing. The end well if the rates aren't horrible we'll get over it. 0 progress during parts and pure chance parts is just obnoxious. No game MMO or otherwise provides a system of attainment where you make no progress except by chance.

I helped friends farm weapons/armor/currency even though I got nothing, even that shows progress, not my own but that person I'm helping who will undoubtedly help me in the future to make progress.

[Jinko]

As long as we get good shelf life out of our items I wont be complaining. I wasn't around for the level cap raise but I wouldn't be feel jilted having new gear when the level cap was raised.

Then again I don't expect the level cap to continually increase either I expect a slow gradual climb up the level caps. If they went all abysea and went from current to 99 in quick sucsession then it would be a problem.

True enough, I suppose there is the hope that relics will be upgradable every level cap also.

~Brrrr~ Stop that .. !!

[Babydoll]

Goddamn neckbeards. If I could, I would reach through my computer screen and slap some of you silly.

rofl. I agree!

Are people seriously defending this RNG system!? Jeez...console games are dead (As E3 proved, failed etc)..please do not ruin MMO for me with this lolrng system, it is my last outlet for video gaming.

[Maxthunder]

all people in your example had the same chance to get the items, fair still

Thats the key words ( had a chance) but again the remaining factor is luck. So those who go w/o a drop for a long period of time still do more work than those players who got lucky that isnt fair, and if you think it is there's something wrong with you. So in the end its the unlucky players who do more work for whatever than those that GOT LUCKY and got the drops.

All the content in FFXIV needs to be completely redone so that players are rewarded for their effort and hard work not just have a players hard work relate to luck of the draw. Is there something you dont understand about that. The relics and all high sought after items could use a different system that 1. dosent really on luck 2. is challenging 3.shows progress. At this point in time the only progress players do see is with achievements. You can sit there and try the arguement well you won, so what if I won I am still 0 out of 100 wins, while the player next to me has 3 out of 100 wins. This is wrong and it is unfair because again at the end of the day those who have gone longer w/o a drop or what not still put in more work for whatever item they are after. This isnt hard to understand at least I dont think it is. ALSO I AM NOT SAYING MAKE IT EASY!!!

[Enfarious]

Well I played WoW for years and we used a fair points system, people got what they wanted or got off spec gear for half price if nobody wanted it for main spec.

That being said you "always always" got tokens so that you could buy tier gear or just better vendor gear to tide you over, there was that constant reminder that even though you didn't get what you wanted you got something which would allow you to progress once you had enough saved up.

Even in Dynamis you got currency (assuming you didn't have some nub hoarding it all) which you could later sell, you came away with at least something ..

In many cases with this game you come away with nothing, ... ohhhh Dark Mater I guess that makes everything all right then.

Most games do something like that, and we've all said it before, we just want to be able to see some measurable progress no matter how small to say that we're not doing all this in vain, that the last 2 weeks farming aren't simply going to go up in a puff of smoke so when we look back we say "Huh what did I do the last to weeks. Iit's like a 2 week foray into Vegas while blacked out, maybe you get home rich, maybe you get home broke, maybe you don't have a home cause you gambled it away, maybe you own a casino cause you won so much you bought it."

Assault points .......... to preempt the FFXI argument lol

[TheVedis]

Most games do something like that, and we've all said it before, we just want to be able to see some measurable progress no matter how small to say that we're not doing all this in vain, that the last 2 weeks farming aren't simply going to go up in a puff of smoke so when we look back we say "Huh what did I do the last to weeks. Iit's like a 2 week foray into Vegas while blacked out, maybe you get home rich, maybe you get home broke, maybe you don't have a home cause you gambled it away, maybe you own a casino cause you won so much you bought it."

Assault points .......... to preempt the FFXI argument lol

tokens in those games can also be comapred to getting dark matter here though

you gotta understand, 99% of the drops you could get with tokens, or some other "non endgame best in slot drop" were pretty damn worthless

in all fairness, dark matter here is the equivilent of tokens there, cuz you didnt go into those raids looking for tokens, you went in looking for a specific drop, much like you are doing here

[Jynx]

True enough, I suppose there is the hope that relics will be upgradable every level cap also.

~Brrrr~ Stop that .. !!

Personally what my guestimate would be is that Relic weapons are going to turn into your "Standby" good gear, while it may be hard to get right now and mostly the best item you can get.

When the level cap rises if they make them upgradeable I imagine they will be good but not great, not ultra hard to upgrade but require a bit of extra time to do. Giving you a reason to complete new content for new gear, but not making your initial investment worthless.

All we can do for now is guess though.

[Maxthunder]

Accidentally posted this in the wrong thread so I'm moving this here.

I've read this whole thread and have yet to see a viable defense out of the defenders of this system as to how and why it is hard work. The only thing coming out of people's mouths seem to be, 'not everyone' can have them. If this is all you people can muster your defense fails horribly.

Others have broken it down so I don't need to, but nothing in this quest line requires hard work. If you've been playing for a long time and have gil, time, and above all else - luck this whole thing is easier than limit break in ffxi.

I also question SE's decision in adding these weapons at this point in time. They are digging themselves quite a hole here. Let's break it down.

In the near future SE will probably raise the cap. In doing so new weapons will be introduced. This could have a effect like Burning Crusade did for WoW. For those that remember the cap was raised and common greens were better than many epics that people had slaved away to get. The no-lifers got pissed off and blizzard did nothing. Complaining ensued. Judging by the elitist mentality here, a similar thing could happen.

In response SE could do nothing or add on power up quests to keep them viable. This would piss off new players because they would be forced to do old grindy content that was designed for an old version of the game. On the developer side of things SE would be forced to constantly look back at these relics when designing new content which for a dev is a major pain in the ass. Imagine this:

Dev 1: Ok new expansion x is ready for release.

Dev 2: Sir, the common items are better than the old relics from 1.0.

Dev 1: Goddamit, I forgot about those old things. Guess we'll have to whip up another convoluted add on to the quest line to keep the old no-lifers happy.

Dev 2: Fffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu again?

Aside from the above this also has the current effect of sending tier iv materia's to stratospheric levels. They are already very expensive. Imagine what it will be like for new players who want to buy a new piece of materia to meld to their boots so they aren't totally gimp.

More people need to look at the long term and not just the short term including SE. This whole thing reeks of a grind to placate the no-lifers who are complaining on these forums of lack of things to do currently so that SE doesn't lose their subs.

I've already said my part about the rng grind in the Relic Weapon thread so I won't digress.

Regardless I think this is a incredibly short-sighted reactionary move by SE that will lead to many headaches down the road for them unless they give the no-lifers a collective fuck you like Bliazzard did in response to the green controversy in WoW BC.

Also the RNG is garbage. We all know this. As a sensible player I had to laugh at my first experience with RNG.
I had a freshly 50 arm and decided to stick some materia on cobalt gauntlets. Then I stuck another on and for the lulz I went for a triple. It stuck on my first attempt doing a multiple meld. It wasn't skill or anything of that sort. Just pure blind luck. I've also seen noobs who barely know how to run straight get a darklight piece on their first attempt clearing AV/CC while the hardest and most skilled players are left with jack-shit.

Edit: I also need to add that the difference between Dynamis and fraggin Hamlet is that Dynamis was widely loved. People HATE Hamlet. After 10 hamlet wins I wanted to swallow a live hand grenade and play Russian roulette with a loaded handgun.

Beautifully written

[Enfarious]

tokens in those games can also be comapred to getting dark matter here though

you gotta understand, 99% of the drops you could get with tokens, or some other "non endgame best in slot drop" were pretty damn worthless

in all fairness, dark matter here is the equivilent of tokens there, cuz you didnt go into those raids looking for tokens, you went in looking for a specific drop, much like you are doing here

Assault gear wasn't all crap, most of it wasn't crap at all. Dyna currency, ABC's, Abjurations, not what I went in for no, worth hanging onto and a tangible reward for my time, yes. This argument is more about the primals though. The AF weapon is more a matter of no progress at points, shitty random progress at others, and then possibly backwards in still others. What about that do you like. Find another system that's built on anti-rewards for your time that actually works.

[Tano]

I think system for relic weapon r good Hard for me that not playing game 24/24 but not impossible

Again, it's not hard. It's just based on luck. I could already make and meld the requested items, but I'm not going to do it. I'm unlucky and I don't want to waste 100m trying to do it.