Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[Jinko]

The same could be said for you though in assuming you know what everyone wants. (for the record I dont think you're ignorant Jinko, just making a point)Some of us are fine with this because it is but a tiny tiny portion of the game as a whole. Myself and Sparty are included in that catagory. It doesn't make us any more or less ignorant than you are.

Yea maybe I shouldn't have called sparty ignorant, its just when I see people pretending to undermine others opinions with "oh you want it spoon fed" it aggravates me.

There is a good balance that can be struck between hard work and obtaining an item, random luck shouldn't have anything to do with it.

It's like going to work and your boss saying sorry this month you don't get any wages better luck next time.

I mean after all the hallabaloo about Ifrit and Moogle tokens and then they go and do this just to rub it in a little bit more, man does Yoshi-p even play this game or just come up with obnoxious ways to extend the life of the content.

[Gentaro]

I am failing to see what part of 6months to a year of Dynamis wasn't repetative and also based on luck.

once every 3 days - that's about 120 times a year - less than I've done Ifrit in the past 3 months.

You ALWAYS had drops in dynamis, just because of the large scale you didn't always get an item yourself - you still saw progress.

[Biggs]

If you had foresight/planning there was never a point at which you didn't make visible progress, farming pops for final tiers? Yeah while your still farming currency or did you wait til that's all you still needed then went to try to get your pop while noone in your (hopefully static) group needed currency? Fighting the mid bosses to get the pops for the next again all while still farming currency. If you somehow were in a group where you found yourselves flooring currency then yes you saw no progress at times, you did however realize that you all had no use at all for anything more down the road.

Here we get nothing. I go farm hamlet for? Just there for seals, w/e I'll eat that time sink, I'd rather see more drop from hamlets to make it worth more than just the seals, dyna armor/weapons/currency/etc.. I get mats together for weapon no big takes awhile but that's fine, I got something and see progress, I also get other random mats. Make weapon hope for HQ or just take NQ. Go SB materia, I'll farm primal items(I don't actually want to do primals cause of the drop rates but I do anyway). Double meld ... break, sweet let's start from mat farming again ... You've just slapped my progress in the face and made it sad.

In the end, kill the double meld, add more drops to hamlet so your not walking away with just nothing, ones people actually want mind you. Your good, AV/CC not happy about it, but it's not a horrible thing. The problem remains that you do things in this quest line with no reward/progress/guarantees what so ever. Relics in XI it wasn't until the end they were truly brutal, but even then you continued to get things you and or your group want. Here you get spit on.

Was Dyna painful, yes, should this be painful, yes, but it shouldn't slap you in the face. That gob never broke my stuff, and all the NPC crafted gear, yeah it didn't get broken, never saw someone break a Mythic/Empy. I never walked out of Dyna/Assault/Einheijer(sp) with nothing to show for it. What would make me want to do that now, in a game that's "more accessible" and "doesn't alienate" people?

I should mention at some point that while I use FFXI as a refrence point I'm not saying I'd like it back. I don't want to do Dyna/Assault/Sea/Sky anymore or I would still be doing them. I never remember feeling so negatively about new content in XI though, which is why I draw the comparison. Even the content that I looked at and said, I'll probably never finish this but I'm gonna try was not so depressing with the possibility of working backwards.

I totally agree but 90% of the rage on this OP is in the assumption that there was/is never going to be any adjustment to that even without our outrage. We know the good nuts and bolts of this system will stay, they could easily adjust drop rates like you say after 2.0. Couldn't it be that this had to go in now because its part of an ordered process to the restructering of the game? There is a ton we don't know in order for us to be acting this way. I mean, you can't even finish the actual quest yet.

[Jinko]

Lets start with wow since im sure alot of people asre familiar with it

10 man raid, boss drops 2 items, out of 10 total possible drops

you are there for a specific drop(lets face it no one wants more then 1-2 from him anyway)

so thats a 20% chance of him dropping what you want, then a 10% chance of you even getting the drop, sounds like bad RNG to me right there too

and then lets look at 25 man raids, the RNg on that is alot bigger too

Well I played WoW for years and we used a fair points system, people got what they wanted or got off spec gear for half price if nobody wanted it for main spec.

That being said you "always always" got tokens so that you could buy tier gear or just better vendor gear to tide you over, there was that constant reminder that even though you didn't get what you wanted you got something which would allow you to progress once you had enough saved up.

Even in Dynamis you got currency (assuming you didn't have some nub hoarding it all) which you could later sell, you came away with at least something ..

In many cases with this game you come away with nothing, ... ohhhh Dark Mater I guess that makes everything all right then.

[Jynx]

Please let's not bring WoW up in this.

As much as I know people enjoyed it I like my gear to last me more than a month before it gets outdated.

[Darkillumina]

Trying to argue with the people who defend this system is pointless. They defend the grind because they think it makes them something special. Goddamn neckbeards. If I could, I would reach through my computer screen and slap some of you silly.

Honestly, this page garnered about 14 pages from last night and the sad part is those defending it have yet to offer a viable reason other than, "not everyone can have these." Anything in any game should be obtainable to everyone in the player-base. If successful real life person #1 has only one hour to play. He should be able to work toward progress in getting these weapons as awfully slow as it may be. As the game currently stands, it is perfectly feasible for someone to invest 4 hours of their time and come out with nothing.

I'm not sure about you guys but I like my time investment in anything I do to have a pay-off. FFXIV does not pay off your time investment with measurable progress. This is not clever game design, it's a time sink that offers no real challenge. For someone like myself who cannot play 24/7 due to actually having a life, the thought of logging on, putting in 4 hours and getting no measurable progress is ridiculous. At least in XI, as grindy and hardcore as it was, I could log on, put in 4 hours and make some progress there. Even WoW during Burning Crusade followed this rule.

You people defending it would make awesome subjects for a dictator. You put up with the crap and defend it. I suggest heading off to North Korea. They could really use people like you.

Finally I would postulate, that the VERY FEW defending it are those who have pretty much been around since day 1, have capped crafting classes and have boatloads of gil. These idiots think they should be rewarded for sticking with the game through the god-awful first year and a half. These are the people those of us with a brain are arguing with. It's like a modified Stockholm Syndrome......SE shouldn't market towards those clowns. They would stay with them through anything.

As I said. I am already halfway to my weapon. What's your excuse other than laziness?

Having a life and a brain.

[Jinko]

Please let's not bring WoW up in this.

As much as I know people enjoyed it I like my gear to last me more than a month before it gets outdated.

Thats the problem, when they increase level cap no matter how hard you work at something its going to become useless.

Thats why its a mistake to have these long time goals, people are just going to get annoyed again just like that did in FF11 when they raised the cap.

WoW has a great system it constantly keeps you working towards the next newest item instead of sitting there stagnating in the same old crap from 3 years ago.

[TheVedis]

Please let's not bring WoW up in this.

As much as I know people enjoyed it I like my gear to last me more than a month before it gets outdated.

the point wasnt to bring wow into it just comparing examples from other games people often mention(hence why i also mention 11)

also, those tokens gave you CRAP gear, not the gear you were aiming for, and your point system WAS NOT GAME IMPLEMENTED, it was player implemented, so the same could be said that you could run that same point system here for drops


i ran hamlet this morning btw, we went 1/3 on drops at 30-50k points(wasnt a serious run, didnt have the group we needed for 60k, alot of people who hadnt done it before) and id call that pretty win as far as progress. some may not, but you know what, thats life.

[Hayden]

237 likes on the OP, that is a significant portion of the NA lodestone user base, and if we assume at least half of those numbers on other language forums we can assume at least 500 or so or more players are very disappointed by this relic weapon quest development.

Can't argue with numbers.

[Jynx]

Thats the problem, when they increase level cap no matter how hard you work at something its going to become unless.

Thats why its a mistake to have these long time goals, people are just going to get annoyed again just like that did in FF11 when they raised the cap.

As long as we get good shelf life out of our items I wont be complaining. I wasn't around for the level cap raise but I wouldn't be feel jilted having new gear when the level cap was raised.

Then again I don't expect the level cap to continually increase either I expect a slow gradual climb up the level caps. If they went all abysea and went from current to 99 in quick sucsession then it would be a problem.