Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[Elgeron]

Nobody here has over constructive suggestions, it's all whines really with a little bit exaggeration over on top.

Sorry but for once, I will disagree, no matter how many people whines, there still a big number of people who try to do their best to discuss and suggest ideas and share opinions, and no matter how much we disagree or how bad they express themselve, we shall respect their ideas and vision, even if they are acting like jerks, otherwise we are not better than them.

In my opinion, comments like this don´t help at all and just dicourage people to post.

That said, I like you signature, pretty funny !

[Biggs]

Most people acknowledged that to get relic weapons in FFXI was hard but fair. It was rewarded to the hard working and dedicated player. You had to gather currency in Dynamis (or buy it if you were mega rich), then fight certain NM's in Dynamis which were real hard themselves. This was making the content a long term progression based system, and difficult fights to add with it. It may have been hard, but it was a fair system, and you didn't see just anyone with the weapon.

In FFXIV however, it is given to the lucky one. Assuming you have a leprechaun under your shoe, you could get all 9 seals within the week when they are lv.2 Battle phase, make the weapon of choice and double meld it the first try, kill the NM requested, and get the items required from Mizer and Chimera. All of this can be done possibly in less than a week. What the next step on relics are is a mystery, but assuming you are lucky this can take less than a week to get through this procedure.

SE claims it takes hard work and dedication to get these weapons. So far that is halfway true. Yes it requires dedication, but hard work? Not true. It is tedious work and that is all.

In all fairness, it is not hard to get the Hamlet seals at all. Claiming it is too hard is a joke. My only concern is basing the process of getting your relic weapon through the RNG system is lazy and not creative at all.

I agree that the weapon forging portion of this is crap, but its not a very large part of the overall picture to me really. Grinding Dynamis and Grinding Hamlet seems pretty much the same as far as game design goes so I see little difference there. The same could be said for the AV and CC portion of this as well. It seems like this is for the dedicated players that make up the small percentage of the overall population that look at this and see a challenge. Much as you pointed out yourself, really specific players would go after them in XI, the same goes for this. Look at the overall tone of this Op if there is any doubt. A good majority look at these requirements and cry "UNFAIR", but a small percentage of us are fine with it and will prob attempt it.

[Alegis]

there will always be a reason for people to complain about things that will take them time to get, no matter how easy or hard it is, as long as they cant get it easy and quick, they will complain

There will always be someone who dont agree with others, thats ok.
But people who answer here should atleast be smart enough to get the point.
Seems like youre not.

[Kagato]

ITT: The most powerful weapons in the game need to be easy to get so that everyone can have one and weapons from Ifrit/Garuda/Moggle Mog become useless! Please make it super easy so that I don't have to have something to show for my hard work and dedication compared to the average player! I want to be just like everyone else!


Seriously, folks. If a relic weapon is too hard for you to get as it is right now, you don't deserve to get one. Stick to your Primal weapons. They're there for people like you. I'm already halfway to my Relic Axe.

Did people complain this much about how hard it was to obtain relics in XI? I never got on the forums for those so I wouldn't know, but it seems like everyone in Xi just took how hard they were to get as fact.

I do remember though that when you saw someone with one, you gave them the nod and told your ls you were looking at one. Much like you do when you see a rare car or plane in RL. Thats what these are intended to be. NOT FOR EVERYONE. Stop thinking of these as AF weapons from xi, and start thinking of them as actual relic weapons would be my bet. As for the stats, they are good base stats as I am sure SE will make these upgradable as the level cap increases. Gut check time folks. Maybe SE doesn't want every tom dick and mithra to have one.

Actually, people in XI did complain about how long it took to get a Relic weapon. After years of complaining, SE finally decided to give in and Relics are now able to be obtained more easily. And guess what happened?

That's right. Everyone started complaining about how easy it was and how it's unfair it is to those who actually worked hard to get one before-hand.

[Alegis]

ITT: The most powerful weapons in the game need to be easy to get so that everyone can have one and weapons from Ifrit/Garuda/Moggle Mog become useless! Please make it super easy so that I don't have to have something to show for my hard work and dedication compared to the average player! I want to be just like everyone else!


Seriously, folks. If a relic weapon is too hard for you to get as it is right now, you don't deserve to get one. Stick to your Primal weapons. They're there for people like you. I'm already halfway to my Relic Axe.

Read > Understand > Answer. Why do most of you skip the understanding part?

Many ppl explained yet what the flaws of the RNG thing are and how it could be done better.
But none of you were able to give a single valid point why the RNG system is good as it is, except these "they just want it easier blabla" nonsense.

[Chardrizard]

Read > Understand > Answer. Why do most of you skip the understanding part?

Many ppl explained yet what the flaws of the RNG thing are and how it could be done better.
But none of you were able to give a single valid point why the RNG system is good as it is, except these "they just want it easier blabla" nonsense.

Let me ask you one simple question, if they do away RNG system, how do you want to work on your relic instead?

[Kagato]

Read > Understand > Answer. Why do most of you skip the understanding part?

Many ppl explained yet what the flaws of the RNG thing are and how it could be done better.
But none of you were able to give a single valid point why the RNG system is good as it is, except these "they just want it easier blabla" nonsense.

You do realize that people can read this topic, fully understand this topic, and still think it's idiotic, right? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it is possible for someone to think you're wrong. I know. Shocking.

I stand by my point. Relics too hard for you to get? Stick to primal weapons. But I can understand this 2-year-old temper tantrum approach you have going. Complain enough and maybe you'll get that candy bar.

As I said. I am already halfway to my weapon. What's your excuse other than laziness?

[Alegis]

Let me ask you one simple question, if they do away RNG system, how do you want to work on your relic instead?

Like ppl explained the last 22 sites and what you guys just did ignore because theres nothing to say against (because it doesnt involve to make anything easier or faster): I want to see Progress.
All i need to know is, that the time spent wasnt wasted. Not to cross fingers every time.
If it still takes a year or two, im fine with that, never had a problem with long-time goals nor with difficulty (loved the difficulty of CoP back then).
Progress and the same amount of work for everyone.
This has absolutely nothing to do with less work/time, like some trolls repeat all the time because they are unable to argue.

Tell me, whats wrong with Progress?

You do realize that people can read this topic, fully understand this topic, and still think it's idiotic, right? I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it is possible for someone to think you're wrong. I know. Shocking.

I stand by my point. Relics too hard for you to get? Stick to primal weapons. But I can understand this 2-year-old temper tantrum approach you have going. Complain enough and maybe you'll get that candy bar.

As I said. I am already halfway to my weapon. What's your excuse other than laziness?

Nothing wrong if some ppl dont agree.
The problem is ur unable to understand what we are talking about.
Otherwise u wouldnt talk about laziness and that we want relics on a silverplate etc.
Your latest post proves it again.

[Onidemon]

To: Yoshida-san and the FF14 Team

Seeing the requirements for just opening up the Quest for the Relic Weapons (not even earning the final Relic), I have one plea:

* Please STOP relying on the "Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate" to use as a Time Sink to keep the players busy.

We realize you have to keep the players busy while you work hard on 2.0. Many of us are *fine* with Long Term Goals and needs to draw out content.

But NOT through the current "Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate" style of rewards we've been suffering through from Ifrit Weapons to Darklight to Materia Melding and Primal Seals, and now with the rest of the steps of the prerequisites for the Relic Weapon Quest (and this isn't even the final step).

For those that don't know, thanks to Sniper and other veterans we've confirmed that the steps just to activate the Relic Weapon Quest are:



Yoshida-san, this is essentially just "Rolling the Dice / Gambling / Playing the Lottery." It emphasizes REPETITION and DUMB LUCK to stretch out content.

I realize you can't create brand-new, detailed Story-based Missions that are full of Unique Monsters that we'd have to take down (for example, Chains of Promathea's Story Missions (early days)) since you're focusing on 2.0.

But using Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rates to make things last longer *doesn't* make the content or rewards "difficult." It's simply the easiest, most mind-numbing way to stretch out content.

How about *rewarding* players for their *effort* and *skill* instead?

Here are some quick ideas using your CURRENT ASSETS (with minor work at best) that would make the Relic Weapon Prerequisites more fair and based on Player Effort and providing CHALLENGE:

• Prove Your Skill & Teamwork by: Defeating Aurum Vale & Cutter's Cry without dying (no deaths).

• Prove Your Tenacity and "Learn" to bond with your Weapon by: Defeating 500 Enemies (Equal Level or Higher, or whatever specific Mob) with your "Broken (early) Pre-Relic Weapon."

• Prove Your Valour by: Defeating Certain "New" Notorious Monsters (NMs):
  
  • Infected Great Buffalo: Re-use the SAME Buffalo NM Model, but buff it up.
  • Infected Uraeus: Re-use the SAME Uraeus NM Model, but buff it up.
  • Infected Mosshorn: Re-use the SAME Mosshorn NM Model, but buff it up.
  • Infected Dodore: Re-use the SAME Dodore NM Model, but buff it up.
  • "New" Guivre / Drake NM: Re-use the *awesome* looking Guivre / Drake monster (we already have in-game), but scale it up 20% and balance the damage on its moves.
    
    For those that have never ventured to the farthest reaches of Eorzea, you should walk around and see these awesome looking creatures we have in-game. The Doomvoid Guivre, for example, looks amazing and glows when it attacks, etc. SE can easily turn this into an "NM" with some tweaks, without having to make a brand-new Model.
    
    http://ffxiv.zam.com/Im/image/177621
    http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Fi...voidGuivre.png

• Defeat All *3* Beastmen Strongholds using your "Broken Pre-Relic Weapon" Without Dying.

• Overcome the "Secret / Reverse Path" of [Dzemael / Cutter's Cry / Aurum Vale]" and gain the [Enchanted Item] at the end to continue. This would be re-using our current Dungeons, but let's say after you clear it (going forward), a new "Gate" highlights and you open up a Side Path (or run the dungeon in Reverse) with BUFFED UP Mobs, new Objectives, etc. (using the same mobs as before), etc. (Obviously Boss placement would be at the "end" of the new path / reverse dungeon path.)

• Incapacitate All Body Parts from [Certain NM] and Defeat them: This would challenge players to work on destroying various Body Parts of an NM before defeating them, and it would emphasize, weaving in and out, avoiding attacks from various sides, overcoming the Adds perhaps, while breaking down a Boss.

I'm not saying these are the best ideas (at all), but they all are MUCH BETTER than rolling the dice and playing the Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate game that you have now.

Even the mundane task of "killing 500 Enemies" that I listed (with your broken Relic) is at least a *measurable* task that EVERYONE can gain the benefit from.

The key point is that it's much more palatable, encouraging, and desirable to know that you are making positive progress each time you effort, instead of just hoping and praying that you get the lucky DICE ROLL and you happened to get your drop for a Primal Seal (which you need 9 of from 3 separate Hamlets (that need to be in Stage 2, that need a 60,000+ Point Total, and that has a low drop rate), or a drop for your HQ Mats to craft one of the new hard Synths (Class Weapons), or you get the lucky roll for your Double Melding Materia on that Weapon to turn in.

And in addition to measurable progress (like a Point System, or # of Kills, or Ancient Currency (like Dynamis)), is the hope of something that also rewards more Skill and Effort instead of just pure dumb luck.

Yoshida-san, the new 2.0 Screenshots and Artwork and your new Interviews are all wonderful and encouraging, and it gives us hope.

But then at the same time, we get punched in the gut with YET ANOTHER "RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR / Dumb Luck / Gambling / Rolling The Dice" task with the Relic Weapon Upgrades.

Please reconsider the Quest Path for Relic Weapons, and especially for the *majority* of 2.0 End Game Content.

And note that we're *NOT* asking for everything to be "easy" or "given to us fast." Long Term Goals are OK (and I love them)! But we need to have Rewards Systems that actually reward Player Skill and Effort and provides Good Challenge, instead of just making us SPAM / Throw Ourselves at a certain task over and over and hoping for a Blind Luck Dice Roll.

There's NO skill in praying that you can Double Meld 2 Tier IV Materias onto your costly Class Only Weapon. It's just gambling and rolling the dice.

Same for hoping you get 9 Primal Seals dropped into your inventory, spamming the same Hamlet Defense over and over.

2.0 shows *so* much promise. Please don't ruin our expectations and demoralize us with any more of this Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate-style content.

Thank you!

They don't have enough content planned to fill in the gap between now and the 2.0 beta. If they didn't add big time sinks like that, lots of people will get bored and stop playing. Add the down time between 1.0 and 2.0 to that and some pple won't be playing for months... enough time for them to move on to other MMOs, get hooked and forget about 2.0 and XIV.

[Kagato]

Like ppl explained the last 22 sites and what you guys just did ignore because theres nothing to say against (because it doesnt involve to make anything easier or faster): I want to see Progress.
All i need to know is, that the time spent wasnt wasted. Not to cross fingers every time.
If it still takes a year or two, im fine with that, never had a problem with long-time goals nor with difficulty (loved the difficulty of CoP back then).
Progress and the same amount of work for everyone.
This has absolutely nothing to do with less work/time, like some trolls repeat all the time because they are unable to argue.

Tell me, whats wrong with Progress?

You want progress? Ok.

Every GC Seal you obtain toward the 25,000 = Progress.
Every Hamlet Item you receive = Progress
Getting the Soiled Promissory Note = Progress
Getting the HQ Materials = Progress
Killing the NM = Progress
Obtaining the Dungeon Items = Progress

How is doing any of these "not seeing any progress?" You don't want progress. You want Guarantees. You want 100% drops and success rates. Anything less would mean "RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR! TOO HARD!"

Stop trying to sugar-coat things to make your point sound more intelligent than it really is. You might as well just come right out and say it: "The current Relic system is too difficult. Make it easier."