Paladins issues: Parry rate and MP

[Enfarious]

This is more for gameplay purposes. If you make parries fully mitigate an attack that gives the developers an excuse to make the parry rate stupidly low or floor it by an insane amount like it was in FFXI. I'd rather the mitigation threshold be something like between 20%-80% of the damage mitigated when parrying.

That's why I said "partial" parries should happen far more often, "full" parries should be possible but not common, with a larger weapon that can provide more deflection area higher mitigation seems reasonable, but that larger weapon would be slower moving and cause a reduction in rate of parries for the increased mitigation of each.

End of the day, having a shield should not remove parries from anyone, any weapon can be used to deflect an attack, how effective is partly a function of the mass of the weapon, but also being able to position the weapon is a factor. The trade is the same as blocks should be, larger=more mitigation but larger means harder to get up in time so lowered rate.

[Duelle]

That's why I said "partial" parries should happen far more often, "full" parries should be possible but not common, with a larger weapon that can provide more deflection area higher mitigation seems reasonable, but that larger weapon would be slower moving and cause a reduction in rate of parries for the increased mitigation of each.

The possibility of full mitigation is more powerful than you think. That's largely why I'm in favor of parrying only mitigating some of the damage rather than negating it.

End of the day, having a shield should not remove parries from anyone, any weapon can be used to deflect an attack, how effective is partly a function of the mass of the weapon, but also being able to position the weapon is a factor. The trade is the same as blocks should be, larger=more mitigation but larger means harder to get up in time so lowered rate.

I'd rather shields be normalized and avoid the nonsense from FFXI with shield size. What I'd like to see is the devs build on the distinction between PLD/GLA shields and THM/BLM/WHM/CON shields.

[Reinheart]

Might not be good for PLD more of DRK ability but they should add where you can use a action just like MNK's stance or WAR's Rampage/Berserk mode but PLD Tank mode and Force mode or something where they dump the shield and becomes more of a DD with Parry & dealing more damage - boosts attack but lowers defence + gives MP on specific actions which normally not granting MP's. Kind of like WAR + Rampage + Steel Cyclone

[Enfarious]

The possibility of full mitigation is more powerful than you think. That's largely why I'm in favor of parrying only mitigating some of the damage rather than negating it.
I'd rather shields be normalized and avoid the nonsense from FFXI with shield size. What I'd like to see is the devs build on the distinction between PLD/GLA shields and THM/BLM/WHM/CON shields.

That's why I said "partial" parries should happen far more often, "full" parries should be possible but not common, with a larger weapon that can provide more deflection area higher mitigation seems reasonable, but that larger weapon would be slower moving and cause a reduction in rate of parries for the increased mitigation of each.

Seriously, read the whole thing completely. I said exactly what you did.

I think also that what they have with different sized shields providing increased/decreased block rates and decreased/increased damage reduction for smaller/larger shields makes good sense. A smaller shield is less heavy and alot easier to move quickly but the lack of mass means that more of the hit is going to be passed to the wielder, where a 50 lb. tower shield is not moving real fast but it's mass would absorb significantly more of the momentum thus reducing the shock felt by the wielder.

Why make a simpler system that would lead to everyone carrying the exact same shield in the end. What we have now encourages some differences in gearing. Now if you wanted to you could boost your block rate to try to reduce the DoT you take through a hi number of blocks, or you gear to maximize damage reduction through fewer far more potent blocks. Both ways can give the same overall reduction over time but allows people to choose which way to play.

[Kerwin]

Didn't the Elezan Gladiator in the intro movie parry the Malbro's 2 arms while covering the Murader? She had a shield on, how did she do that?

[Masamune1004]

Didn't the Elezan Gladiator in the intro movie parry the Malbro's 2 arms while covering the Murader? She had a shield on, how did she do that?

She didn't have her guard ability on

[Duelle]

Seriously, read the whole thing completely. I said exactly what you did.

Not really. You said full parries should still be present in the proposed tanking model for PLD. I am arguing that they should not and parries should just be an additional mitigation-type proc that acts cumulative to block chance, as PLD would already gain plenty from being able to parry in the form of Overpower and Foresight.

Why make a simpler system that would lead to everyone carrying the exact same shield in the end. What we have now encourages some differences in gearing.

You mean aside from that fact that people at the level cap are already all using the same gear for the most part? It would go with the grain rather than against it.

[Icecylee]

I'm still confused as to why we can't block and parry at the same time. If nothing else, I'd really like to be able to look at a listing of swords, and not feel the strong desire to punch someone on account of how many of them have +parry (which has no effect unless I feel like giving up a substantial chunk of my abilities and attacks! krtgekjgtjkgejkr )

[Arcell]

These midigation controls should NOT be seperate.
You can't tell me that I cant parry someones attack WHILE holding a shield AND even have a chance to evade.
Its completely possible to do all of that realisitcly, and dont tell me you cant, because a human can lift a 2000lbs boulder; crazier shit has happened.

Realistically, yeah you can do it. It's for the sake of balance I believe. Each of the tank classes (gonna throw PGL in there as an example anyway, you can tank for like 3 seconds) has two damage mitigation moves.

PLD = Block and Evade
WAR = Parry and Evade
MNK = Evade and Parry

To me at least, this makes sense. If Paladin has access to all three, it would throw of the balance. I think what they should do is making blocking actually matter. I would also be okay with Block and Parry instead of Evade.

[SwordCoheir]

Realistically, yeah you can do it. It's for the sake of balance I believe. Each of the tank classes (gonna throw PGL in there as an example anyway, you can tank for like 3 seconds) has two damage mitigation moves.

PLD = Block and Evade
WAR = Parry and Evade
MNK = Evade and Parry

To me at least, this makes sense. If Paladin has access to all three, it would throw of the balance. I think what they should do is making blocking actually matter. I would also be okay with Block and Parry instead of Evade.

True my good man, but WAR and MNK also stand as the highest potential DPS's as well. PLD often isn't considered a DPS even in the slightest sense, and since it's main focus is tanking having the ability to parry would give them at least a significant leg up in the defensive department over other jobs, course that depends how well the shield adjustment in 1.22b is. I think when they initially redesigned shields in 1.19 (or was it 1.20) they were originally hoping they would come out on par with parry damage negation, or at least block far more often to make up for the difference. Of course, what looks good on paper doesn't always pan out in application and Shields as we all know failed miserably.

Anyways, the way things are looking with Shields if they make shields work like a boss in 1.22b, I might care less if we regained the ability to parry or not (though it would be welcomed none the less.)