5th chest for only unique jobs/classes in party

[Elexia]

No, it's incredibly annoying to find people of various class/jobs.

And why do you think this is? lol. Surely not because you people like stacking 1 particular class/job and people are told to be ARC(BRD) or THM(BLM) or they won't get to do any events or anything.

[waldo]

It's a good idea in parts, mainly because speed run very strongly promotes class stacking, seems only fair to have another set of instance that strongly promote diversity. Not 100% of either, more like a 50/50 split of each.

Major flaws with this though, the biggest being you can, and in may cases are encouraged to, change jobs inside the instance. That effectively distroys your proposal.

[Chardrizard]

And why do you think this is? lol. Surely not because you people like stacking 1 particular class/job and people are told to be ARC(BRD) or THM(BLM) or they won't get to do any events or anything.

Lol excuse me, i am probably one of the few that actually tries different stuff like meleeing moogle, MNKing ifrit, full nuking WHM.
http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...642c001ef6.jpg
http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...4c18000b14.jpg
The only difference is i make it happen, not whine about it at forum.

Back to original intention of this thread, if you can't possibly see how annoying it is to shout "AV speedrun LF> DRG MNK WHM BRD THF WAR MAR, PM ME" , then i have nothing to say.

[SwordCoheir]

While I agree the bonus chests should be granted on something other than speed, I don't think forcing a diversity of jobs is any different from class stacking, especially when you get people with limited jobs available/classes.

If I had to choose something I would rather have something like multiple bonus chests, each is spawned by fulfilling certain conditions like clearing the dungeon of all monsters (excluding summoned minions), breaking/incapacitating Mini-boss/Boss/NM's, making a Boss exhaust their MP to a certain percentage, killing optional NM's, absorbing so much damage from a boss, clearing a dungeon without anyone returning/deaths, and maybe speed on top of that. Each bonus chest has the chance to drop the same gear giving players who can achieve multiple goals a better shot at gear, but players who are slower or can't pull off all the goals will at least have a fair shot at rewards.

Considering the extremities of some of the goals however, it will likely be difficult for even advanced groups to achieve maybe more than two-three bonus chests per run giving a better sense of difficulty and reward for those who can.

[Denmo]

I would only support this if it was very clear upon completion that you were rewarded for doing something unique.

Like how they did in Super Smash Bros Melee.

[Mikita]

Class stacking is not necessary for any content, its a community issue not a design issue. So man up and do the content how you want to and stop trying to get SE to design content in a way that forces others to play that way. We dont class stack its our choice but I like that we can if we so choose to.

I agree that it is a community issue.
But it is because people will naturally lean towards doing something the easiest, most efficient way. It's what drives society to innovate, and progress. So I don't mean to say it's a bad thing.

However in FFXIV, because there is no incentive to take a diverse party, it means that the quest for efficiency leads to a tendency to stack the best class against a particular opponent.

It's very difficult to get people to do things differently unless you force them (not my preference), or there is some clear and compelling reason to change.

Major flaws with this though, the biggest being you can, and in may cases are encouraged to, change jobs inside the instance. That effectively distroys your proposal.

Actually, I suggested that changing jobs should not be allowed. I think I read somewhere that they may disallow it in certain instances anyway.

Considering the extremities of some of the goals however, it will likely be difficult for even advanced groups to achieve maybe more than two-three bonus chests per run giving a better sense of difficulty and reward for those who can.

Bonus chests would be nice.

But challenge is the whole idea.

Just using Garuda as an example, a couple weeks after the fight we had lots of people complaining about how easy it was. Why? Because someone figured out that you could stack Black Mages against Garuda and could win more easily that way.

People here are always asking for more challenge in FFXIV.
I think that giving a clear incentive for taking a diverse party would reward those people who are up to that challenge.

It should still be possible to tackle the fight any way you like, with any party composition you like -- but it would be nice if there were some benefit for teams who are able to beat a fight without taking the easiest route known to the player base.

[Aarkz]

Would many players be happy if SE made new dungeons and primal fights only drop the 5th chest if there are no job/class duplicates in the party, and no job/class changes allowed mid-way through?

Or what if there was a bonus for parties with only unique jobs/classes that gave a higher drop rate on highly desired gear like Darklight items?

Benefits:

- It would discourage class stacking.

- No class stacking should make things a bit more challenging, which many people seem to want.

- Less exclusion of certain jobs/classes from parties.

- Possibly a chance at higher drop rates which many people think is too low as it is now.

- No focus on speed runs. People will eventually try to get through it as quickly as possible because it's more efficient, but at least you won't be required to do a speed run just to get the last chest.

Note: The 8th party member would probably need to be a class rather than a job in order to avoid duplicates. For example, you could have 1 Warrior and 1 Marauder, or 1 Black Mage and 1 Thaumaturge... but not 2 Warriors, nor 2 Black Mages.

SE took a similar approach with Hamlet defense for having all 3 DoL classes present... why not do something like that with dungeons and primal fights?

It should still be possible to beat the fights. It seems like SE tests the new content with a diverse party since their preview videos never have class stacking. And as we saw with a YouTube example, it is possible to beat Garuda without class stacking.

Why not encourage more party diversity and up the challenge at the same time?


Note: I posted this in another thread but it was a bit off topic, so I thought it would be better to give it a separate topic. Either that, or everyone just hates the idea. ^^;

I love this idea.

[Krausus]

I agree that it is a community issue.
But it is because people will naturally lean towards doing something the easiest, most efficient way. It's what drives society to innovate, and progress. So I don't mean to say it's a bad thing.

However in FFXIV, because there is no incentive to take a diverse party, it means that the quest for efficiency leads to a tendency to stack the best class against a particular opponent.

It's very difficult to get people to do things differently unless you force them (not my preference), or there is some clear and compelling reason to change.




Actually, I suggested that changing jobs should not be allowed. I think I read somewhere that they may disallow it in certain instances anyway.




Bonus chests would be nice.

But challenge is the whole idea.

Just using Garuda as an example, a couple weeks after the fight we had lots of people complaining about how easy it was. Why? Because someone figured out that you could stack Black Mages against Garuda and could win more easily that way.

People here are always asking for more challenge in FFXIV.
I think that giving a clear incentive for taking a diverse party would reward those people who are up to that challenge.

It should still be possible to tackle the fight any way you like, with any party composition you like -- but it would be nice if there were some benefit for teams who are able to beat a fight without taking the easiest route known to the player base.

Personally I would rather have more options not less, would hate to tell someone sorry you cant come we already have a BLM or what ever job or tell them sorry you have to bring a class not a job, oh whats that you dont have class armor well to bad for you. People naturally flock to the easiest most efficient way of doing things but that doesnt mean they have to. Stop doing PUGs I think that is where the issue lies because PUGs will go the easiest route because half the group sucks to begin with.

[Mikita]

Personally I would rather have more options not less, would hate to tell someone sorry you cant come we already have a BLM or what ever job or tell them sorry you have to bring a class not a job, oh whats that you dont have class armor well to bad for you. People naturally flock to the easiest most efficient way of doing things but that doesnt mean they have to. Stop doing PUGs I think that is where the issue lies because PUGs will go the easiest route because half the group sucks to begin with.

I agree that it's terrible to be told that the class you want to play is not welcome... but isn't that basically what the community tends to do already?

In fact, I think it's a bit worse the way it is now because the typical Garuda set up only includes Warrior, White Mage, Black Mage, and maybe 1 Bard. So people who want to play Monk and Lancer are left out... and oh, poor Paladin! No one really wants a Paladin in the party right now.

And personally, I almost never do PUGs.
I have the good fortune of being in 2 active Linkshells that let people play any job/class we like. We don't class stack the fights, and to be honest (and maybe because of that) we haven't even beaten Garuda yet. I know the typical strategy, but having fun with my group of friends playing whatever job/class they enjoy is more important to me than getting any loot.

Implementation of this suggestion wouldn't really affect me.

But having an incentive for mixed parties just came to mind as a possible solution to a few problems that I see this game facing right now... namely:
- lack of challenge for expert players
- class stacking and leaving out certain jobs/classes
- an alternative to speed runs
- abysmal drop rates

[indira]

5th chest for only unique jobs/classes in party

dont think its gonna happen people will still want a WAR,WHM, BLMx6 :/