Integrity matters

[BigCheez]

Do you really think by putting any random phrase in quotes you're gonna trick me into thinking I said it? I find this tactic adorable but, it's not effective.

Ok, if you would prefer the direct quote then let's go with "typing slurs in chat".

So, which of those messages were you interpreting as "typing slurs in chat"?

The irony of trying to claim that this isn't what you said while what we're talking about is you putting words in other people's mouths btw.

[Len_]

Ok, if you would prefer the direct quote then let's go with "typing slurs in chat".

So, which of those messages were you interpreting as "typing slurs in chat"?

The irony of trying to claim that this isn't what you said while what we're talking about is you putting words in other people's mouths btw.

That isn't what I said though. My posts are right there. You won't find "hurling slurs at people" in any of them.

[JohnLakeside]

Ok, if you would prefer the direct quote then let's go with "typing slurs in chat".

So, which of those messages were you interpreting as "typing slurs in chat"?

The irony of trying to claim that this isn't what you said while what we're talking about is you putting words in other people's mouths btw.

The dude you're talking to is a troll. He confuses his pedantry with intelligence.

Edit: Just checked his post history cuz his low wavelength argumentation felt familiar. He was in my "Banter" thread saying the most inane garbo wahaha.

[BigCheez]

That isn't what I said though. My posts are right there. You won't find "hurling slurs at people" in any of them.

Which is why in my last post I used the exact quote - "typing slurs in chat" - to prevent you from dancing around the issue instead of answering the question, yet you seem to be doing that anyway.

Which of the messages that you quoted did you interpret to mean "typing slurs in chat"?

[Len_]

Which is why in my last post I used the exact quote - "typing slurs in chat" - to prevent you from dancing around the issue instead of answering the question, yet you seem to be doing that anyway.

Which of the messages that you quoted did you interpret to mean "typing slurs in chat"?

I just think it's funny how you can't not lie. You said

The irony of trying to claim that this isn't what you said

It's "ironic" to claim something that's evidently true based on my posts which anyone can read with their own eyes? Or are you saying I claimed I didn't say "typing slurs in chat"? Which is also a lie.


Your little bait post here didn't get any engagement from me because I saw it for what it was and don't personally get anything out of responding to it.

Yeah, I think "people who don't like botters are secretly just mad because they can't say slurs" might be the most unhinged opinion I've ever read but at this point, I'm not even surprised.

Now you're just coming across as desperate.

[VanillaWafer]

This game does have sex adjacent content, but it's become less of a thing since ShB. Actually, there's less sex talk in the German translation. All the creepy NPCs hitting on simpering girls in Limsa either say something different, or the girls tell them where they can stick it. Main storylines are preserved, but the random flavour text is not.

I think the over sexualisation may be on the English translation, which is famously quite different from the Japanese script.

There's an important distinction between depicting something and endorsing it. The presence of sexual or suggestive flavor text doesn't necessarily mean the game condones the behavior being depicted, especially when the text itself may portray an unwanted advance negatively.

And even if EN Localization has more sexual content than the other languages, that's still a separate question from whether that content causes or facilitates criminal behavior among players. That latter claim would need evidence of its own.

I think it's a little silly to think "This game has Limsa prostitutes, so it's okay to sexually harass other people." Like, no. It's actually reportable:

Example 2

In the case of role-playing involving mildly sexual expressions (such as erotic role-playing) with a consenting group of two or more players, if it is conducted in a private area, it will not be considered a violation unless a report is made.

However, if you encourage or invite a player to participate in such role-play without being certain of their consent, there is a high possibility that you will be reported and penalized. Please be very careful.

As you can see, expressions that fall under this category are generally prohibited, so if even one player who witnessed such an expression finds it offensive, there is a high possibility that it will be reported. What is considered offensive will vary from person to person, so if you believe there is any chance that you may offend someone, you should refrain from making such expressions.

Please note that Square Enix may issue a penalty at its discretion even if a report has not been filed but the act was found being conducted in public areas such as Say and Shout, search comments, Party Finder, on online video/streaming services, if the behavior is found to violate real world laws, or if it may be considered a problem based on the game's entertainment board ratings.

[BigCheez]

I just think it's funny how you can't not lie. You said



It's "ironic" to claim something that's evidently true based on my posts which anyone can read with their own eyes? Or are you saying I claimed I didn't say "typing slurs in chat"? Which is also a lie.


Your little bait post here didn't get any engagement from me because I saw it for what it was and don't personally get anything out of responding to it.


Now you're just coming across as desperate.

Are you going to answer the question or nah?

[Turtledeluxe]

This game does have sex adjacent content, but it's become less of a thing since ShB. Actually, there's less sex talk in the German translation. All the creepy NPCs hitting on simpering girls in Limsa either say something different, or the girls tell them where they can stick it. Main storylines are preserved, but the random flavour text is not.

I think the over sexualisation may be on the English translation, which is famously quite different from the Japanese script.

Respectfully, the game literally just had a raid oriented around "draining the audience" and otherwise glorified furry culture. I'm also not responsible for non English translators or employees. You also skipped over sexual bdsm glam that (even if historically accurate) has been in the game since Heavensward.

Sexual content is reportable but that's basically equivalent to doing "not much". Square Enix taking this approach to the game that they've created is sort of like putting alcohol on a table of alcoholics and being surprised about a DUI charge. They're also not only responsible for the content they've created, but also for mods due to the director's statements. You cannot simply take credit for the utility of mods, you have to take credit for the whole entire package. That's how it works when there's no actual rules around mods other than don't get caught using them.

That isn't what I said though. My posts are right there. You won't find "hurling slurs at people" in any of them.

They don't care. What they [unhinged projection because you can't win a single argument)] actually getting in trouble for typing slurs in chat meanwhile knowing that there are people running mods that let them change how their character looks in their own client and not being punished for it. That's all this is. That's why they keep appealing to the amorphous "problem" with how the developers choose to enforce their TOS as they see fit, which is their prerogative, without being able to articulate how it actually hurts anything other than their feelings.

[Carighan]

Square Enix taking this approach to the game that they've created is sort of like putting alcohol on a table of alcoholics and being surprised about a DUI charge.

I'm sorry, but if you're triggered to harass people from doing Vamp Fatale, that's definitely a you-problem. Reasonable adults that are even remotely well-adjusted can consule erotic, sexual and suggestive content without in turn thinking erotic, sexual or suggestive advances are desired by the players around them. People who think like this are exactly the problem, and the sooner we get rid of these players (instead of mods or whatever), the healthier the game will be.

This is like how when you got to a kink expo, despite the whole theme of it, you don't just go to some sub and try to play with her. You'd get punched by ~everybody around and the cops called on you, and for understandable reasons.

I would suggest that if you cannot handle ... not even adult, not-kiddo?... content in a video game, you avoid it? Yes, gore in particular is rather widespread, so that's a lot to avoid, but if you know it doesn't work for you, then why are you playing games that trigger you? And you should probably ask yourself why entirely normal adult concepts like eroticism or even sex apparently have such an effect on you, in particular if violence or gore (violence being also hyper-common in FFXIV, mind you!) fail to have an even more egregious effect, given their appaling nature.

[Turtledeluxe]

I'm sorry, but if you're triggered to harass people from doing Vamp Fatale, that's definitely a you-problem. Reasonable adults that are even remotely well-adjusted can consule erotic, sexual and suggestive content without in turn thinking erotic, sexual or suggestive advances are desired by the players around them. People who think like this are exactly the problem, and the sooner we get rid of these players (instead of mods or whatever), the healthier the game will be.

I initially interpreted this as ad hominem but re reading it, I think it's fair to respond more responsibly. I am not really debating whether or not adults are reasonable. But since you brought it up, do I think most people are reasonable? You're kinda draining all the context. This is an online game that provides anonymity. It allows you to become a part of ingroups. Sure, in isolation adults might be reasonable, but in a online game where rules are dictated by the developers and you have all these social elements to consider, how reasonable someone is in isolation isn't the only factor to consider. Nowhere have I argued mods are inherently problematic, I've argued devs have objectively played a role in the subcutluire growth (unintentionally or not) since they've exclusively set the rule "as long as we don't see it and no one reports it". I also never said getting rid of mods, erasing all sexual content in the game, etc will get rid of human sexuality (that's ridiculous). I've never demanded devs do any particular thing outside agreeing with a dev approved tool kit.

I would suggest that if you cannot handle ... not even adult, not-kiddo?... content in a video game, you avoid it? Yes, gore in particular is rather widespread, so that's a lot to avoid, but if you know it doesn't work for you, then why are you playing games that trigger you? And you should probably ask yourself why entirely normal adult concepts like eroticism or even sex apparently have such an effect on you, in particular if violence or gore (violence being also hyper-common in FFXIV, mind you!) fail to have an even more egregious effect, given their appaling nature.

How can someone avoid, let's use the raid as an example? The various sexual elements are in the design, the music (lyrics), the announcer statements, etc. It's built up across the entire encounter, so I 'd argue it doesn't really make much sense unless you directly experience it. I'm not debating whether or not people can "handle it", including myself. I was told there's no problem here, no substantive point behind the thread, and SE robustly defends against problems. All I am saying is, I disagree with all those statements and this is why. It's not just one raid, it's all my posts in summation. The comment on the raid was not directed at you, but another post that stated the game hasn't had sexual elements since Shadowbringers. That's factually untrue and your post doesn't actually disprove that point at all. You're talking about entirely different subjects.

If you're asking my actual opinion on sexual elements in the story such as this raid, do I think we need them? Genuinely ..I don't think they're necessary. I'm not triggered by them at all, but I think this raid would be JUST as well received without Vamp. I can't say for certain things like sexual storytelling, glam, or mods cause sexual deviance in the player population. That's not really the point. The point is that it makes sexual deviance more likely than not, or more convenient than not, especially in game that uses realistic human proportions and animations. People are saying this happens in every game, maybe. But in a game with this level of fideliity and ease of access, it's a philosophical question as far as "how much responsibility does Square Enix have given these factors". Additionally considering this context, how responsible is it to have a lax attitude toward ToS violations as such? It's food for thought, not an instant demand for anti cheat.