Caster Raise Situation

[Shchaq]

With evercol on horizon and the job revamp comming in think it's good time to do something about this problematic situation.
The problem im reffering to, I'm sure devs are aware of but I want to bring it up anyway, is how you are able to zombie thru fights to see all mechanics and stuff, clear example of that was m7s where a team got to enrage with boss on around 80%hp just by running rdm,smn comp. I understand ppl don't like bodychecks all over but at least those prevented such problems to occur. Additionaly having raise on caster inhibits bad/lazy gameplay from my experience.

I would suggest if raise is to be kept in game for casters, disable it in high end duty or make it instant cast ogcd with 5min cooldown, and additionaly put it as a role action for casters (tho i would prefer it be removed completly), and remove "raise dps tax" that clearly exists.

I understand some of you will be like "omg but my raismage class identity"... no, just stop it... I know it allows for some clutch moments in your extreme runs ect, but i'd rather have rdm doing high dmg then having raise tax.

[hydralus]

So with Bastion in Evercold, do you figure their block rate will be doubled since they have two shields?

[Jeeqbit]

We had a similar thing with tanks doing this in Endwalker. I'd literally solo my way through another 50% of the Extreme fights while the party was dead, to show them all the mechanics.

But for Savage raids, it's intentional by SE, and you'll see why if you read on:

Back in Heavensward into Stormblood, it was common to get vuln stacks when failing mechanics. They were so devastating that you usually couldn't progress with these vulns. This prevented the party from practicing mechanics later into the fight, and walled people at the start a lot.

Later in Stormblood into Shadowbringers, they moved to using Damage Downs when failing mechanics. The developers admitted this was so that people could see the entire fight and practice the entire fight, but not clear it due to failing the damage checks.

So you see, the developers 100% intend people to be able to see a whole fight such as M7S, but not clear it until they are good enough at it to minimize damage downs. I saw this a lot with M9S when it released. Until we had enough gear from tomestones, a lot of PFs could get to enrage, but they couldn't clear because of the bat movement and all the damage downs they got.

[jomas_45]

As said by Jeeqbit, seeing more of the fight is a good thing. Many high ranking players may not need them, but I take ages to learn a fight, and having raises helps immensely. We don't tend to actually clear until we've got it down to max 2 deaths, because of the dps loss.

That said. I think RDM's Raise, used in conjunction with Double Cast, is too powerful. Double cast shouldn't be able to be used with Raise, but I have no idea how hard that would be to program.

[Carighan]

I fail to see the problem, OP?

Like you yourself state, it's suboptimal damage (due to the mana and time wasted on rezzing) and doesn't win you fights. It's a flavour ability most of the time, it can be the odd fight-saver when it leads to strong identity vs the pure casters BLM and PCT.

Sounds like a win/win situation to me? As in, genuinely, what you describe serves as a reason not to remove caster rezz. Your exact argument is a beneficial element of having it, and reason to keep it around. If you actually see a problem, you'd need to first show where it's atually problematic to have?

[Jeeqbit]

That said. I think RDM's Raise, used in conjunction with Double Cast, is too powerful. Double cast shouldn't be able to be used with Raise, but I have no idea how hard that would be to program.

I thought that back in Stormblood, when Red Mage release. The release of this job changed the game completely, where people got carried through certain fights like never before. For example, I remember the insane number of rezzes in Suzaku Ex, whilst still consistently clearing.

The developers can't have been blinded to how this would change the game, nor could they have missed what was happening. They decided that is how they wanted the game to be, and it's been this way for 9 years now. I don't think they will go back on it suddenly.

[Carighan]

Plus as others have said, combat design has changed and RDM mass-rezz barely has value nowadays outside of maybe alliance raids.

[Valence]

Bring back resource and MP scarcity instead of body checks.

Problem solved.

[Carighan]

I mean that's kinda what limits RDM rezz already, you can only rezz ~4 times, 5 if you time it really really well, and in that case you'd lose a fair bit of damage as you'd hard-deplete your mana pool and just used dreaming already.

[BigCheez]

I mean that's kinda what limits RDM rezz already, you can only rezz ~4 times, 5 if you time it really really well, and in that case you'd lose a fair bit of damage as you'd hard-deplete your mana pool and just used dreaming already.

Sure, but up to 3 of those raises could be 2 healers and a SMN who can also raise. RDM can effectively pick an entire party up off the ground.