Dark Knight and Gunbreaker are the perfect tank in dawntrail here wayThgi

[Mikey_R]

The deets: How Does Living Shadow Work Exactly

Ah, so, where I assumed Living Shadow would do less damage, it would actually do more, just pushing DRK even further ahead of the other tanks in AoE. Knew that skill was weird.

[Oizen]

I do wonder how Dark Knight will move into Evolved, its damage profile is 100% dependent on 2m buff heavy comps and isn't really built into the job itself. With those being gone Dark Knight is likely going to be a lot less explosive.

Personally I would prefer it kept the high damage psuedo DPS feel, even if its at the cost of being more frail with low sustain.

[Carighan]

I do wonder how Dark Knight will move into Evolved, its damage profile is 100% dependent on 2m buff heavy comps and isn't really built into the job itself.

Huh? That's the easy part, that's all just tweaking potencies. And can pick whatever CD they want, can be 120s, can be 60s, can be no-fixed-CD.

Personally I'd of course be hyped for the last option, but make it tank-relevant. Esteem doesn't add as much damage (since it can be used frequently-ish), but the CD is unreliable, and while it is out our tank CDs cycle their cooldowns at 2x speed and TBN gets 2 charges of which the first is free to use (Esteem uses it). Best tank for rare bursts of repeated damage as a specialization.

[Rithy255]

I'd argue paladin is one of the best designed tanks in the game, still with some quirks and issues and arguably its self sustain should be toned down slightly. Paladin unlike other tanks has a very good advantage at range optimizing to me it makes the job more interesting and dynamic in what skills you should use theirs just generally more room. Having two stacks of your short CD Sheltron/intervention in the form of Oath gauge also means you can do stuff such as double mit or feel more safe to use sheltrons for autos when learning fight patterns ect. Also niche options like clemency/Cover can be a game changer in very rare situations. I think when people say Paladin is boring they're more Referring to either the early level experience or the lack of weaving, which me personally don't care if a job is busy as long as im pressing some things such as my gap closer for damage and my other ogcds.

GNB/DRK are kinda cool I think both have very good kits but they do merge into the general tank feel more then paladin does, I feel like they mesh with the tank formula more then paladin does, not to say PLD is also effected by rigid homogenization but I certainly feel like GNB/DRK really dont stand out as tanks other then "they weave a bit more" DRK I guess has TBN Which is kinda interesting.

Warrior feels really strange from a gameplay perspective in 4 mans as you are effectively just immortal as long as you know when to press bloodwhetting your other defensive don't matter, if your even average at the game you can do runs without healers very easily even when constantly messing up, where a Paladin would likely have to at least give up damage and the other tanks you have to kinda know what your doing without a healer (Though this is bad design separate from tanks more related to damage output and how tiny bits of sustain is generally enough). Warrior even in a game where damage values were proper and healers had a job the way warrior is designed its got a benediction on a 25s cooldown that lasts for 8s in AOE, Ontop of every other tool having some kind of sustain, Its rotation is also easily one of the more boring ones outside of DRK's (who's just value warrior with weaves).

If i had to rate tanks i'd go PLD > DRK > GNB >>> WAR due to how interesting i find their total kits and how much i think it lines up with fantasy, I dont see Warrior as this healing knight I dont get why it has stronger party healing then a paladin it doesn't make any sort of sense to me. DRK is fun due to how TBN works, GNB I may have ranked higher but recent changes really did make the job feel even more samey, to me it feels like Paladin with weaves. And I prefer PLD Due to ranged options and greater party utility so I have no desire to play anything other then PLD/DRK generally speaking even if i dont mind gunbreaker.

[SakuraMidnight]

[


Bloodletting just needs to go. its cancer for the game. its destroying the game. as long as it exist healer baliance will never be ok

[Absurdity]

Bloodwhetting is, quite frankly, the smallest problem with tanking. It's a big bad boogie man that overshadows every other problem with the support roles.

Does it make healers obsolete in dungeons? Sure, but they're still barely doing anything if you removed it from the game.
The difference between pressing two oGCDs per wall pull and pressing 0 oGCDs isn't very big.

[Carighan]

Bloodletting just needs to go. its cancer for the game. its destroying the game. as long as it exist healer baliance will never be ok

You're showing your limited low-level-only experience again, Sakura. xD

[Rithy255]

Bloodwhetting is, quite frankly, the smallest problem with tanking. It's a big bad boogie man that overshadows every other problem with the support roles.

Does it make healers obsolete in dungeons? Sure, but they're still barely doing anything if you removed it from the game.
The difference between pressing two oGCDs per wall pull and pressing 0 oGCDs isn't very big.

I'll start off by making it clear, I think casual content is still important to somewhat balance and make every role feel useful, I think raiders forget that theirs more to the game then just raiding, I've tackled a few hardcore fights (not on this char before people look that up theirs a reason i dont use my main on forums) but I think its very important that casual players have fun.

Anyway my actual point is that unlike other tanks & defensive cooldowns which are more balanced when on minimum item levels to the point where a healer may actually have to HEAL the tank, a big issue in why people think "Tanks are OP" is because of how gearing works in casual content, Even a dark knight can sustain themselves in AOE If they have good gear, that becomes much harder when your stats are lower which makes healer feel more important.

The problem is a warrior has excess healing with good gear, so much they dont even need, with a min item level warrior this is even true because how Bloodwhetting is a infinite amount of healing in AOE situations that lasts for 8s on 25 cooldown with other sources of healing and defensive. Compared to jobs like PLD/GNB/DRK who generally have a short cooldown with one heal effect that isn't powered up by per enemy theirs always a finite amount of self healing, surely this becomes stronger with better gear as your hp, defenses and heal potency go up all together which has a massive value spike.

If you fixed gear scaling and general defensive value without changing BW it would be a problem cooldown, Holy sheltron, TBN nor HOC are problems because their healing is limited, BW simply isn't which causes problems in AOE Casual dungeons, Simple solution would be to remove the per enemy heal effect, Personally I think warrior needs a overhaul away from the "healing tank" identity into this more berserker tank. (Not to say it cant have self heal on par with other tanks). Self healing is ironically its reason why its so weak defensively in savage+ content because it loses value in hard core content.

[Nero-Voidstails]

You're showing your limited low-level-only experience again, Sakura. xD

that I can agree with you but I do have to say this raw intuition might be a bit to powerful early but as you go it become well just fine. I do think it should start weaker in healing power but upgrade as the game goes.

tho I wanna see a other skill but for like bosses because bloodwhetting on bosses isn't bad but isn't great compared to all other 25 second mit