Can Meteor's next job not be melee?

[ForsakenRoe]

I genuinely think the last thing most players wanted to see at NA Fanfest coming off of Dawntrail was the WoL as a Dancer or White Mage but people here don't understand that context

They need a big win in Evercold and again I really don't think the WoL appearing as a Dancer or White Mage is going to bring that unfortunately.

I'm also not sold on Dancer, but WHM I disagree with. It's very possible to make a WHM that looks badass in a trailer. Same with any of the Healers

I think you just have a preference, and you're insisting that advertising requires catering to that preference to be successful, but it doesn't necessarily have to.

Also, you say EC needs to be a big win for them, and that 'WOL being a DNC/WHM isn't going to be that', how is the WOL being a RPR going to cause EC to be a big win? We saw WOL being a VPR for DT and DT wasn't a big win, so maybe we could equally say 'oh actually maybe people are tired of Melee/Tanks being the Trailer Job for 5 expansions in a row, we should try something different'?

[Coolyy]

"We know most people play dps so we always want to release a dps class"
Congratulations... you're compounding the problem.
You generate interest in tanks and healers by revamping them and releasing new ones. All they've ever done is homogenize and simplify them. 4 tanks and 4 healers vs. 14 dps jobs. What a joke.

I guess they normally only care about pleasing the shareholders, so when the game tanks so hard they actually have to look the players' way for once, they treat us the same way instead of doing competent game design.

Was scrolling though some earlier pages and saw this: this is absolutely true and a major issue with XIV that more casual gamers do not understand. Most games that have a Trinity system fall into this same problem of releasing too many DPS and the player base starts getting pissed, XIV is no exception. Also they separate Tank and Healers into sub-roles while other games don't really do that. So now it's effectively a 3-2 and 2-2 spread for the Supports while the DPS Jobs will have 7-4-5 after Evercold including Limited Jobs.

Five Tanks and four Healers simply isn't going to cut it going forward and hopefully people realize this next expansion. I do believe they should go back to releasing three jobs per expansion and both a Tank and a Healer should be two of the new Jobs released in 9.0 alongside a DPS as this would please everyone. Then 10.0 would be two DPS and a Healer. Now the Support spread is 3-3 and 3-3 which is much more healthy. 11.0 and onwards they can do whatever since the problem would be addressed by then in only two expansions.

This Viera Wildheaven has good takes.

You know, thematically I struggle to see how Reaper is supposed to connect to the initial themes of Evercold. Like there's certainly a lot more that could be revealed that might more strongly connect the job to the expansion, but looking back, you could at least see the thematic link between Dark Knight and Shadowbringers, as well as Paladin and Endwalker, right away. You'd think in an expansion where we'll become the Warrior of Fire, that Black Mage would be the natural choice. That said, if we do end up going to the shard that succumbed to water, I think repping both Black Mage and White Mage would be a lot cooler as I mentioned in the initial post rather than just being a Black Mage here for Evercold. But what about Summoner bringing the aether of Ifrit?

And this just makes no sense but you probably don't have the context yet. You need to read up about Norse Mythology like Yoshida has told us to. Maybe play the Norse God of War games as they are really fun and Yoshida is a really big God of War fan himself that's a big inspiration for FFXVI, so you will quickly see the inspiration for Evercold. Then should probably understand how Reaper fits into the more creepy/horror aspects of Norse Myth thematically. Scandinavian Lore is notably creepy and weird. I say this as a half-Scandinavian whose European side has made me do some pretty creepy... stuff, so I'm not bullshitting here lol.

[ty_taurus]

And this just makes no sense but you probably don't have the context yet. You need to read up about Norse Mythology like Yoshida has told us to. Maybe play the Norse God of War games as they are really fun and Yoshida is a really big God of War fan himself that's a big inspiration for FFXVI, so you will quickly see the inspiration for Evercold. Then should probably understand how Reaper fits into the more creepy/horror aspects of Norse Myth thematically. Scandinavian Lore is notably creepy and weird. I say this as a half-Scandinavian whose European side has made me do some pretty creepy... stuff, so I'm not bullshitting here lol.

Completely different game dude, FF Reaper is nothing like that nor does the trailer WoL have that personality he’s just a stand-in John Final Fantasy. Obviously those goes were good, but I don’t see how this interpretation fits with any Expansion so far including Evercold.

[Coolyy]

Completely different game dude, FF Reaper is nothing like that nor does the trailer WoL have that personality he’s just a stand-in John Final Fantasy. Obviously those goes were good, but I don’t see how this interpretation fits with any Expansion so far including Evercold.

Sure a completely different game but both use the exact same mythology as inspiration. Yoshida is a huge God of War fan I am not making this up, that's literally a big reason why he made FFXVI the way he did. If you're trying to outright deny the Norse Mythology influence in Evercold then I'm not sure if this is a serious discussion anymore, but I can't tell if you are.

Source:

Q: Can you talk a little bit about some of the games that have maybe inspired or influenced the development of Final Fantasy 16? So personally I see a little bit of God of War and The Witcher, and I'm curious if they were references for you while you were developing it.

Yoshida: I love the two games, especially God of War. The craziness of the boss battles in God of War, when it was a more traditional action game, is just... The game design is so different for each stage, and the boss is so unique, everything is made with power, and you can feel the power. So, while I personally also really like the most recent God of War games, I look back further to the original God of Wars, and especially the boss battles in those, how the boss battles are all crazy, they're all different designs for each, they're all unique, they're all over the top, and in getting inspiration from that and creating our Eikon versus Eikon battles to kind of have that same fee

The Witcher is a good shout also as that definitely has some inspiration in the trailer and again has Norse Mythology influence. I don't think we will explore Rated M themes in Evercold though as that is more of a XVI thing being the only Rated M FF lol.

FF Reaper lore isn't really established yet as it's an original Job that doesn't really have a distinct identity in XIV so far due to the various interpretations. Also, did we watch the same cutscene in patch 7.5 where Halmarut directly references Zenos and conjures his Scythe while hinting that our WoL isn't this wholesome good-doer anymore and now has their own selfish desires they want to fulfill? Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub3sjiuDhwk. It sounds like the WoL will be doing a lot more things on their own from now on, which fits Reaper thematically as this lone wolf FF Job. It's not like they're forcing Reaper because there is no other Jobs as an option as I'm sure the new Valkyrie Job and the Crossbow Job will fit Evercold's themes. There is clearly an obvious reason why the WoL is a Reaper that will be explored in 9.0. Probably the most thematic the WoL has been since Dark Knight in Shadowbringers.

If you don't like what they are selling, that's totally fine! I'm just not sure why we are outright denying it exists. I guess you'll realize at Berlin or something if the initial trailer wasn't obvious enough to convince you that the Reaper is the WoL. I mean rewatch it for yourself when you can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk3rfUC80DE

[Ankhira]

I'm also not sold on Dancer, but WHM I disagree with. It's very possible to make a WHM that looks badass in a trailer. Same with any of the Healers

I think you just have a preference, and you're insisting that advertising requires catering to that preference to be successful, but it doesn't necessarily have to.

Also, you say EC needs to be a big win for them, and that 'WOL being a DNC/WHM isn't going to be that', how is the WOL being a RPR going to cause EC to be a big win? We saw WOL being a VPR for DT and DT wasn't a big win, so maybe we could equally say 'oh actually maybe people are tired of Melee/Tanks being the Trailer Job for 5 expansions in a row, we should try something different'?

I also don’t really understand how the WoL being any specific job in the trailer would make an expansion a big win. The trailer doesn’t affect game play, and whether the WoL is a Ninja, Warrior, Dancer, or WHM doesn’t change how I feel about the expansion itself.

Maybe that’s just me, but I’ve never tied my excitement for an expansion to the trailer job. Would it be nice to not always have Melee DPS? For sure, but again, it's just a trailer, not the game itself. Trailer could be the hypest things ever and the expansion for it could be mid.

[Coolyy]

I'm also not sold on Dancer, but WHM I disagree with. It's very possible to make a WHM that looks badass in a trailer. Same with any of the Healers

I think you just have a preference, and you're insisting that advertising requires catering to that preference to be successful, but it doesn't necessarily have to.

Also, you say EC needs to be a big win for them, and that 'WOL being a DNC/WHM isn't going to be that', how is the WOL being a RPR going to cause EC to be a big win? We saw WOL being a VPR for DT and DT wasn't a big win, so maybe we could equally say 'oh actually maybe people are tired of Melee/Tanks being the Trailer Job for 5 expansions in a row, we should try something different'?

I mean the problem with Viper is that it was barely even featured in Dawntrail MSQ. The WoL themselves were barely in the MSQ since it was all about Wuk Lamat! They killed GJJ who was a VPR in the middle of expansion after we barely even got to know him, one of the dumbest deaths in XIV history but his solo instance was cool. Sure Zoraal Ja is a VPR but again he's barely even in the MSQ and his writing is questionable at best. The problem with Dawntrail was that the MSQ was just bad, Viper never even had a chance or got any lore outside of the Job Quest. Also Pictomancer, what even is that? It's barely in the MSQ! Viper is still the most popular DPS despite all of this so clearly it's a success to them. They saw Dawntrail's reception and still decided to make the WoL Melee again, so what does that indicate to you? This is like saying Archer was a bad WoL Job choice in 1.0 because that version of the game was horrible! It's not really a fair discussion.

All of the other Expansions have had proper Job representation besides like Paladin in Endwalker since that Job has the worst lore in existence to be honest with y'all, but it still perfectly fit Endwalker's main theme which was Hope.

I completely acknowledge that the WoL Job can be anything as this is literally how they treat it in-game. I personally would want the WoL to be a Machinist in 9.0 if it is actually FFVII themed, but y'all also have to be able to acknowledge why they've only done Melees so far as there various reasons that go beyond the most basic which is Marketing. The Melee Jobs they've chosen for the WoL have been the best thematic fit for each Expansion so far, it's not like they are just picking these Jobs at random and they all happen to be all Melee. I sympathize y'alls frustration but we need to be able to at least acknowledge the WHY before we can have change.

[ty_taurus]

If you don't like what they are selling, that's totally fine! I'm just not sure why we are outright denying it exists. I guess you'll realize at Berlin or something if the initial trailer wasn't obvious enough to convince you that the Reaper is the WoL. I mean rewatch it for yourself when you can:

You seem to think I don’t actually believe meteor is a reaper in Evercold’s trailer and I’m trying to argue why he might be something else? I don’t know what you’re reading, but you’re certainly not reading anything I wrote.

We have already seen him appear as a Reaper in the teaser. No one’s questioning or debating that. I’m asking that we stop only representing tanks and melee DPS jobs in the future and show some love to the other 11–soon to be 12 jobs in the game.

Dragoon, Monk and Samurai, Dark Knight, and Paladin all had strong reasons to fit the theme of the expansions the appeared in, but with Viper and now Reaper, it’s started to feel as if they are intentionally ignoring non-melee jobs. The fact that everyone seems to give a different reason for Reaper proves this to me. The theme isn’t strong enough to generate a cohesive response, which would not be the case if I tried to question Dragoon through Paladin.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I also don’t really understand how the WoL being any specific job in the trailer would make an expansion a big win. The trailer doesn’t affect game play, and whether the WoL is a Ninja, Warrior, Dancer, or WHM doesn’t change how I feel about the expansion itself.

Maybe that’s just me, but I’ve never tied my excitement for an expansion to the trailer job. Would it be nice to not always have Melee DPS? For sure, but again, it's just a trailer, not the game itself. Trailer could be the hypest things ever and the expansion for it could be mid.

The way I see it today after watching how these devs handles non-meele/tanks, it's more like poking around to see if they actually give any one or two f*** about the role's (read: healer) dreaded state from different angle. The... for the lack of better word - conventionally 'attractive to market'-jobs/roles gets all the love. It's like "Oh so you don't care about my gameplay 80% of the time. Can I have at least 20% of nice things even if it's just on aesthetic front?"-question.

I've said it in past similar thread: if they can't even churn out their creativity juice for any of the caster DPSes role i.e. make the main poster guy at least represent one of these jobs even if it's just briefly, then there's no hope they would be able... or rather, want to extend a crumb of said gesture to the healers. Because devs always think these jobs belongs to the backline where no one would care what they do so long the frontliners gets all the full glory and spotlight. And unfortunately that's a sentiment shared by some of their own playerbase & it further reinforces the stigma.

[Coolyy]

You seem to think I don’t actually believe meteor is a reaper in Evercold’s trailer and I’m trying to argue why he might be something else? I don’t know what you’re reading, but you’re certainly not reading anything I wrote.

We have already seen him appear as a Reaper in the teaser. No one’s questioning or debating that. I’m asking that we stop only representing tanks and melee DPS jobs in the future and show some love to the other 11–soon to be 12 jobs in the game.

Dragoon, Monk and Samurai, Dark Knight, and Paladin all had strong reasons to fit the theme of the expansions the appeared in, but with Viper and now Reaper, it’s started to feel as if they are intentionally ignoring non-melee jobs. The fact that everyone seems to give a different reason for Reaper proves this to me. The theme isn’t strong enough to generate a cohesive response, which would not be the case if I tried to question Dragoon through Paladin.

Reaper has a strong thematic fit for Evercold. Who cares what these other people say, I am a legitimate Reaper main who knows a lot about Norse Mythology and I can assure you that it's defintely the best thematic option here out of the 21 existing Jobs. You just can't see it yet which is fine and why I told you to read up on Norse Mythology since Yoshida said himself in a Q&A after Fanfest. They also haven't showed much content yet they only showed the Reaper as the WoL, so we don't have full context at all yet. I also reminded you about the 7.5 cutscene where there was two clear intentional moments that had a parallel between Zenos and the WoL despite: When Halmarut compared the WoL to Zenos asking them if they have selfish desires in their journey and when the WoL looked at the Moon the same exact way Zenos did in Trail to the Heavens. What was Zenos' job? Reaper.

It's a much stronger fit than Viper in Dawntrail which is probably the weakest out of any Expansion despite still being the best choice considering the trailer only showcased Tural content and not Alexandria and Viper is supposed to be this charismatic Job that gives off this whimsical feeling in the Melee role almost like you are on Vacation.

[Supersnow845]

I know way too much about Norse mythology (thanks mimir) and I still don’t see why reaper is well thematically connected to it