Whitemage feedback for Mr. Prime

[Nadda]

Gonna try a different approach because I want feedback to get through. Which means to get the devs onboard to know what it is they should focus on as concerns, I'm gonna format this by noting some positives and then negatives.

Some positive

I think the core philosophy behind Evolved Mode — consolidating buttons, limiting redundancies, and really pushing job fantasy — is a fantastic direction for the game going forward.

I also love the idea of every job getting a signature “Limited Action” that screams job fantasy, like the cool new jump Dragoon received. For White Mage, something like a large party-wide barrier (inspired by Y’shtola and the Lalafell White Mage from the 1.0 trailer) would feel incredibly satisfying and on-theme.


Some Negative

The main things I hope get addressed for White Mage are making sure we keep Assize, Thin Air, Asylum,and especially Cure III.

Cure III and Asylum in particular are vital parts of the White Mage toolkit because they let us heal groups of players who are far away — like in split-room mechanics or when one healer is down and the party is split across the arena.

Removing or not consolidating those would make certain encounters much harder to handle without forcing everyone to stack awkwardly. Which would limit encounter design.

Assize and Thin Air is also key for MP recovery in longer fights. These aren’t just random buttons — they’re how White Mages actually keep people alive in real raid situations. Recovery for resurrecting dead party members or recovery for whitemage who died themselves.


Some Positive

That said, White Mage in its current form is genuinely a lot of fun, especially when AoEing mobs with Glare IV, Assize, Misery, and Holy.

I also think the new Evolved Mode loop with Plenary Indulgence turning your heals into Solace/Rapture to build the Sanctuary Gauge is a really strong idea. It gives lily usage actual intent and decision-making instead of just spamming them for Misery, which feels like a genuine upgrade.

Some Negatives

Keeping White Mage’s damage simple is totally fine, as long as it still feels dynamic.

For example, Aero/Dia could be automatically applied at the start of the Evolved Mode combo string.

By the time you finish the full combo, it would refresh itself naturally. At full Sanctuary stacks it could even become a multi-DoT effect for extra reward. That would give the simple rotation some satisfying depth and intent. In Reborn Mode, Aero/Dia could simply stay as its own standalone button like it is now.

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White Mage can (and should) remain simple and approachable for new players, but please remember that its healing options aren’t “intimidating” — they’re a core part of its job identity and what makes the fantasy so satisfying for longtime mains.

Thank you for reading and for all the hard work on Evercold. I’m really looking forward to more details and hope these concerns can help make White Mage feel as good as it can be in both modes.

Everyone I'd urge for discourse in this thread to front load positive remarks in equal share with negative remarks - Thank you your cooperation will be greatly appreciated in conveying a proper message.


EDIT - additional words to Mr. Prime

As the conversation has been developing in this thread, I've thought of something to ask for as inspiration that isn't directly feedback but is still in line with those ideals.
Inspired by your own Evolved mode, how Whitemage now presses Plenary to unlock or "Evolve," one could say their standard GCD High Cure and Medica into Solace and Rapture specifically.

I believe that if Assize and Thin Air will no longer be available for Whitemage. And with Evolve mode being an almost alternative specialization. As was shown with Dragoon.
We could return the ability "Cleric Stance"

Blackmages have a damage phase with their fire spells and a mana recovery phase with their ice spells.
Why not have a new Cleric Stance that for a temporary window, converts High Cure and Medica, not into lily using Solace and Rapture, but rather; All new abilities which serve as a means to deal burst damage, heal slightly but recover MP.

translate to Japanese

I believe now is the time where we should seriously be giving old abilities taken away a serious look.

Bring Cleric Stance back (But not as we knew it) make it a mana ramp burst phase that allows players to attack and heal.
Pressing Cleric Stance turns Medica into Assize and High cure becomes...
FLUID AURA (This new fluid aura, is a single target damage spell, that will apply just Aquaveil onto party member with the highest enmity, however, 5% of the 15% mitigation regenerates Whitemage MP)

Bring back Protect (but again not as we knew it)
As a Limited Action. Similar to Dragoons High Jump, which allows us to create a smaller bubble we channel that will do heavy party mitigation. To embrace the Whitemage Job Fantasy that was shown but never given in 1.0 FF14 trailer and shown many times to be used by Y'shtola in the MSQ.
All these things can be added to Whitemage. While keeping the new control scheme. Simple and Satisfying.

Whitemage is a simple job. I think Reborn mode as Whitemage is already approachable for those who want to heal.

If your intent is to make that job easier to use, add a bit of spice! Make Whitemage have a simple but satisfying burst window for damage. A healing phase, and a burst phase.
Anyway, just a personal suggestion. Please consider it and the other well organized thoughts of the great people contributing to this thread.

And again, thank you very much for your hard work!

Please read the feedback also provided by Users "Jovakim" and "BlueMageQuina" on page 9 of this Thread!
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...r.-Prime/page9

[Nadda]

別のアプローチを試してみようと思います。フィードバックをしっかり伝えたいからです。そのためには、開発者の皆さんに「どこに焦点を当てるべきか」を理解してもらう必要があります。なので、まずはポジティブな点、その後にネガティブな点を挙げます。

ポジティブな点

「エボルブドモード」の根本的な哲学――ボタンの統合、冗長性の削減、そしてジョブファンタジーの強化――は、今後のゲームにとって非常に素晴らしい方向性だと思います。

また、各ジョブに「ジョブらしさ」を強く感じさせるシグネチャー的な“リミテッドアクション”を持たせるアイデアもとても良いと思います。例えば、ドラグーンが新たに得たクールなジャンプのようなものです。白魔道士であれば、（ヤ・シュトラや1.0トレーラーのララフェル白魔道士に着想を得た）大規模な全体バリアのようなスキルがあれば、とても満足感がありテーマにも合うと感じます。

ネガティブな点

白魔道士に関して特に対応してほしい主な点は、アサイズ、シンエアー、アサイラム、そして特にケアルガ（Cure III）を確実に維持してほしいということです。

特にケ特にケ (Cure III)ガとアサイラムは、白魔道士の重要なツールキットの一部です。というのも、これらは離れた場所にいる複数のプレイヤーを回復できる手段だからです。例えば、部屋が分断されるギミックや、ヒーラーが一人倒れてパーティがアリーナ内で分散している状況などで非常に重要になります。

これらが削除されたり、うまく統合されなかったりすると、特定のコンテンツが非常に対処しづらくなり、全員が不自然に固まることを強いられてしまいます。それは結果として、コンテンツ設計の幅を狭めてしまいます。

ポジティブな点

とはいえ、現在の白魔道士は本当に楽しいジョブだと感じています。特にグレアIV、アサイズ、ミゼリ、ホーリーで範囲攻撃を行う時の爽快感は素晴らしいです。

さらに、新しいエボルブドモードにおけるプレナリー・インダルジェンスのループ――回復をソラス／ラプチャーに変換してサンクチュアリゲージを構築する仕組み――も非常に良いアイデアだと思います。これによってリリーの使用に明確な意図と判断が生まれ、単にミゼリのために連打するだけではなくなるのは、明確な進化だと感じます。

ネガティブな点

白魔道士のダメージ周りがシンプルなのは全く問題ないと思いますが、それでも動的に感じられることは重要です。

例えば、エアロ／ディアはエボルブドモードのコンボの開始時に自動付与されるようにしてもいいと思います。

コンボを最後まで完了する頃には自然に更新され、さらにサンクチュアリスタックが最大のときには複数DoT効果になるなどの報酬があっても良いでしょう。そうすることで、シンプルな回しの中にも満足感のある深みと意図が生まれます。リボーンモードでは、エアロ／ディアは今と同じように単独のボタンとして維持されれば良いと思います。

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白魔道士は今後もシンプルで新規プレイヤーに優しいジョブであり続けるべきだと思いますが、その回復手段は決して「難しすぎる」ものではなく、ジョブアイデンティティの中核であり、長年プレイしてきた人にとっての魅力そのものだという点を忘れないでほしいです。

読んでいただき、そしてEvercoldの開発に尽力してくださっていることに感謝します。今後の詳細発表をとても楽しみにしていますし、これらの意見が両モードにおいて白魔道士をより良いものにする助けになれば幸いです。

編集 - Mr. Primeへの追記

このスレッドでの議論が進む中で、直接的なフィードバックではないものの、その理念に沿った形で「インスピレーションとしてお願いしたいこと」を思いつきました。
あなた自身のエボルブモードに着想を得たものです。ホワイトメイジが現在、プラナリー（Plenary）を押すことで「進化（Evolve）」し、通常のGCDであるハイケアルやメディカをソラスやラプチャーへと変化させるように。

もしアサイズやシンエアーがホワイトメイジからなくなるのであれば、そしてエボルブモードが竜騎士の例のように、ほぼ別の特化スタイルとして機能するのであれば、
「クレリックスタンス」を復活させることもできるのではないでしょうか。

黒魔道士には、ファイア系でダメージを出すフェーズと、アイス系でMPを回復するフェーズがあります。
同じように、新しいクレリックスタンスを導入し、一時的なウィンドウの中でハイケアルやメディカを、リリー消費のソラスやラプチャーに変えるのではなく、
全く新しいアクションに変換するのはどうでしょうか。それらはバーストダメージを与えつつ、わずかに回復し、さらにMPも回復する手段として機能します。

今こそ、削除された過去のアビリティを真剣に見直すべき時だと思います。
「クレリックスタンス」を復活させましょう（ただし、以前の形ではなく）。
MPを増加させるバーストフェーズとして設計し、プレイヤーが攻撃と回復を同時に行えるようにします。
クレリックスタンスを発動すると、「メディカ」は「アサイズ」に変化し、「ケアルガ」は…
「フルイドオーラ」に変わります。
（この新しいフルイドオーラは単体攻撃魔法で、敵視が最も高いパーティメンバーに「アクアヴェール」を付与します。また、15%軽減効果のうち5%分がホワイトメイジのMPとして回復されます。）
さらに「プロテス」も復活させましょう（これも以前の形ではなく）。
リミテッドアクションとして実装し、竜騎士の「ハイジャンプ」のように、小さなバリアを展開してチャネリングすることで、パーティ全体に強力な軽減効果を与えます。これは、FF14の1.0トレーラーで示されながら実装されなかったホワイトメイジのジョブファンタジー、そしてメインストーリーでヤ・シュトラが何度も使用している描写を体現するものです。
これらすべては、現在の操作体系を維持したままホワイトメイジに追加できます。シンプルで満足感のある形で。

ホワイトメイジはシンプルなジョブですし、リボーンモードのホワイトメイジはヒーラーをやりたい人にとって十分扱いやすいと思います。

もしこのジョブをさらに使いやすくしたいのであれば、少しスパイスを加えてみてはどうでしょうか。
シンプルでありながら満足感のあるダメージのバーストウィンドウを持たせる。回復フェーズとバーストフェーズを分ける、といった形です。

あくまで個人的な提案ですが、ぜひ検討してみてください。そして、このスレッドで貢献している多くの素晴らしい意見にも目を通していただければと思います。

そして改めて、日々のご尽力に心より感謝いたします！

このスレッドの9ページにあるユーザー「Jovakim」と「BlueMageQuina」によるフィードバックもぜひお読みください！
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...r.-Prime/page9

[Loggos]

Positive

Coming from PvP I am carefully optimistic because my impression was that PvE white mage might be inspired by its PvP counterpart.

WHM in PvP is straight-forward and easy to understand but (I think) it's very fun (and not brain-dead). In my opinion it's a really good embodiment of "easy to learn, hard to master".


If the dev team manages to recreate the gameplay and class design of PvP healers then this is going to be a win because each healer has their completely unique identity. They're not reskins of each other. They also feel meaningful because despite their reduced buttons they have diverse tools for different gameplay decisions. They just don't suffer from redundancy.

For example (in my humble opinion), as WHM you have a gameplay loop with satisfying variety because damage, healing and utility alternate in quick succession but are never static/always random so you still have to think on your feet. This also makes the fact that you often cast (insta) glare a lot less frustrating because your DPS is constantly "interrupted" by healing or utility.
(In terms of utility something like Polymorph is probably hard to adapt for PvE because obviously you can't polymorph a boss but maybe the devs can find suitable PvE replacement skills.)

Healing also feels a lot more strategic and meaningful because you have to hard-cast it and you are punished a lot for bad positioning/distance/risky maneuvers. And your heals are limited. This means every heal has to be deliberate and well-planned because you need to be sure you can commit to it and you won’t miss it later as long as it’s still on CD. (Of course heals are also limited to the specific number they are because of recuperate. But I think you can recreate the same principle of resource management in PvE.)

This brings me to the point about PvE hard-casting heals (vs. instant DPS). I've seen criticism of it but I really like this choice if they manage to recreate this same kind of strategy/commitment requirement in PvE.
When I play healer I want the main part of my brain power go to the question how I heal best/most effectively.
No, I am not saying healers shouldn't DPS! (On the contrary, as I pointed out above, the unscripted alternation between healing and dps is what makes PvP WHM fun.)
And of course since it's the "easy" healing job I know they won't go for super punishing set-ups in normal content. But maybe in the new mid-core raid tier and above.

Concerns

I can't give a definitive "negative" because we don’t have the actual kit and new fight design yet but it’s definitely a big concern.

Of course PvP and PvE are very different modes.

So the success of WHM and the other healers will stand and fall with the question whether the dev team will be able to mimic the fast-paced randomness/unpredictability of PvP in PvE, that demands of players to make different active decisions vs. a strict routine.

I completely understand players worrying that an even more simplified rotation will completely neuter the job and not bring the promised individuality and challenge.

The dev team really needs to commit to their promise/insight that currently boss fights have too much downtime (to accommodate the 2 min meta) and that evolved jobs will lead to a lot more active and dynamic boss fights.
Randomness is a really important factor here in addition to pace/activity so I sincerely hope the dev team will make this a core principle of their fight design (or at least pseudo-randomness).
That is the key ingredient that makes every PvP class work.

If those are just empty words and the fights stay too similar to how they are now a WHM design like in PvP will be incredibly unsatisfying.

So I hope, their new approach will reflect the philosophy of easy to learn, hard to master.

[Nadda]

I should mention it's fine to post concerns instead of negatives.

The reason for this thread is that if the devs only see negative, they can't parse out the data properly, I think. I'm trying to follow the Maximilian method of feedback. This and this is great, this could be an issue or I got a problem with this.

Because there are things to be excited about.

[EaMett]

I'm waiting to see what it actually plays like.

On the positive end I think they are approaching the problem the correct way and I'm excited for a full rework of how the game plays and feels. I think the changes they showed go in that direction and I would love to see more of what they prepared.

With that said, they repeatedly said they weren't making jobs easier but then when WHM came around they used the phrasing "it makes x easier" like 5 times. The WHM job demo clearly demonstrated a significant lowering of the job skill ceiling as well and that's even before you factor in the removal of 2 minute buffs (which I don't mind, I think other flavors of team synergy could be nicer but I am of the opinion that there should still be team synergy). Everything from execution to heal planning to damage planning seems simplified. SE also have a track record of lowering the skill ceiling on healers repeatedly every expansion for almost a decade now. Pushing many top-end healers towards playing dps instead to find some level of personal job growth. So it's really REALLY hard to trust them on this. But since this is a major rework and the "spirit" of the changes seem correct I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. It's just feeling a lot like a fool me once/twice scenario. I'm here sniffing my copium and hoping WHM is just their 'beginner friendly' healer of choice and other healers will have more involved gameplay. Please push the difficulty up for SCH

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（※このコメントは自動翻訳されたものです）

実際にプレイしてみるまで様子を見たいと思っています。

ポジティブな面で言えば、開発側は正しいアプローチで問題に取り組んでいると思いますし、ゲームのプレイ感や手触りが全面的にリワークされることにワクワクしています。今回披露された変更はその方向性に沿っていると思いますし、準備されているものをもっと見てみたいです。

その上で言うと、開発側は「ジョブを簡単にするつもりはない」と繰り返し言っていたのに、WHMの発表の際には「○○が楽になる」という表現を複数回も使っていました。WHMのジョブデモでも、ジョブの難易度の上限が明らかに下がっていることが示されていました。しかもそれは、2分バフの撤廃を考慮する前の話です（これ自体は別に構いません。チームシナジーの形は他にもあり得ると思いますし、ただ何らかのチームシナジーは残すべきだという考えです）。操作の精度からヒール計画、ダメージ計画に至るまで、あらゆる面が簡略化されているように見えます。さらにSEは、ほぼ10年近くにわたって毎拡張でヒーラーの難易度上限を繰り返し下げてきた実績があります。トップレベルのヒーラーたちは、個人的なジョブの成長を求めてDPSに移行せざるを得ない状況に追い込まれてきました。だから、彼らの言葉を信じるのは本当に、本当に難しい。でも、今回は大規模なリワークであり、変更の「方向性」は正しいように見えるので、一応信頼して様子を見るつもりです。これはまさに「二度あることは三度ある」というような状況に感じられます。コピウムを吸いながら、WHMはあくまで「初心者向け」ヒーラーとして選ばれただけで、他のヒーラーにはもっと複雑なゲームプレイが残されていることを願っています。SCHは設定上の「策士」というロールにふさわしい、ちゃんとした難しさにしてください。

[Hyperia]

When I saw the presentation, I wondered what happened to so many skills and abilities. Then I remembered that they wanted to make sure that each healer has a distinct identity. With this in mind, I have a feeling that the healers will be updated in something similar to this:

WHM - pure, direct heals, spell based DPS
AST - pure, regen heals, cards based DPS
SCH - shield, shields also heal, DOT based DPS
SGE - shield, shield only, DPS also heals similar to a regen

With this in mind, it would explain where the WHM dots and regens went. Right now, I really do not mind these changes as I will have to admit, as a WHM, I have not really used regen or dots as much as I should. Cleaning things up also lays the foundation for 3 to 4 more expansions with of new spells and abilities in the future. Though… hopefully, Assize is not lost and incorporated into a level 110 capstone spell so we don’t loose it, I like twirling.

For the last two years, I have already been playing in evolved mode through the use of glare and lily healing. I’m willing to give them a chance and see what is hidden for later in the job showcase. It’s clear that they are still working on this so let’s keep up with all of the feedback!

[Nadda]

When I saw the presentation, I wondered what happened to so many skills and abilities. Then I remembered that they wanted to make sure that each healer has a distinct identity.

I do think it be really cool if every job received a limited action ability like Dragoon that was pure job fantasy.

[Azurarok]

Not to say yall shouldn't be voicing your concerns (please do), but if Medica/Rapture can be used to target aoe heals like CureIII I don't think we would need CureIII.
I'm also wondering if they may have merged Asylum into Liturgy but he never showcased that button.

Considering how much they were emphasizing the job being friendlier to people who don't heal I think it's possible he was trying to avoid showing everything to it, but maybe I'm being too optimistic.

[Nadda]

Not to say yall shouldn't be voicing your concerns (please do), but if Medica/Rapture can be used to target aoe heals like CureIII I don't think we would need CureIII.
I'm also wondering if they may have merged Asylum into Liturgy but he never showcased that button.

Considering how much they were emphasizing the job being friendlier to people who don't heal I think it's possible he was trying to avoid showing everything to it, but maybe I'm being too optimistic.

I mean if medica/rapture served a similar purpose as cure 3 that would be fine. Setting the epicenter for the aoe is what makes cure 3 more useful than just being a big heal in itself.

There are many things we do not know this is true and many things that cannot really be showcased as a healer when compared to dps or tank.

[Uzephi]

I have a feeling that the healers will be updated in something similar to this:

WHM - pure, direct heals, spell based DPS
AST - pure, regen heals, cards based DPS
SCH - shield, shields also heal, DOT based DPS
SGE - shield, shield only, DPS also heals similar to a regen

While I would love to have multiple dots back, the evolved presentation hints that Square is completely dropping dots altogether. Our final remaining dot DPS just lost all their dots. (BRD, and I wouldn't call a 3 second 'dot' that ticks once a dot). Sadly, it could be assumed all healers, even sch, no longer have dots come 8.0 (unless they stay in reborn mode)