Evolved WHM concerns

[Heilstos]

The removal of “Presence of Mind” (at least in its current form) isn’t just a random change, but part of a broader design shift.

From what we’re seeing, Square Enix seems to be moving away from the rigid two-minute burst meta. A lot of jobs have been built around syncing everything into these 120-second windows, and now that structure is being loosened or even broken up entirely.

Because of that, it makes sense that:

Two-minute-aligned skills are being reworked or removed
Raid buffs tied to that timing are disappearing or changing
And yes, this also affects White Mage losing that kind of raid-buff identity in this context

So “Presence of Mind” going away (or being heavily changed) isn’t really a standalone change. It’s more a symptom of the overall system redesign ("In times the Boss must stand still every 2 mins"). The goal seems to be shifting gameplay away from strict burst windows toward something more flexible and reactive.

The same core idea already existed with Afflatus Misery. In practice, it was mostly used to line up with those two-minute burst windows, which again ties back into the old meta design.
The important part, though, is that the core identity of the Lily system hasn’t changed: healing translates into damage. That fundamental loop is still there.
So if Afflatus Misery is being removed, it doesn’t really feel like a loss of identity to me. Instead, it looks like another step away from forcing everything into those strict two-minute windows. And honestly, that might be a good thing.

Right now, we also don’t know the actual potency values of the new White Mage damage kit, so it’s too early to judge the real impact. Until we see numbers and play it ourselves, any final evaluation would just be speculation. (Media tour in December going to show us more.)

The new direction for the Afflatus kit is actually pretty interesting. With every use from an Afflatus heals now providing an additional healing amplification effect (for 5 secs -maybe to less for player not planning around. 10 secs could be better), it feels like the original purpose behind Asylum hasn’t really disappeared. It’s just been redistributed in the lilis.
Instead of placing a static ground field for healing buffs, that “healing boost identity” is now tied directly to your GCD actions. In a way, this keeps the spirit of Asylum alive, but makes it far more dynamic and player-driven.
On top of that, since GCD healing naturally feeds back into damage through the Lily system, it creates a much smoother loop: healing decisions directly contribute to your DPS optimization. That basically feels like a fusion of the Lily system and Asylum’s old role.
Personally, I think this is actually more flexible than dropping a fixed field every 90 secs. It gives you more control over when and how you provide value, instead of being locked into a predefined window.

[Karuya]

The problem I have with those changes are actually the cd on holy sanctuary. Those changes are supposed to let white mage heal "as much as they want" without losing dps. But since holy sanctuary has a 30 seconds CD, then it means that white mage can't use more than 3 heals every 30 seconds without losing dps... This feels nonsensical. I feel like holy sanctuary should not have a CD but should be usable only with at least 1 stack of sanctity. That way, every 3 heals, you are "forced" to cast holy sanctuary in order to gain the right to use other heals without losing dps. But right now, you are forced to not use more than 3 heals every 30 seconds or else you will lose dps. That's weird.

[WaxSw]

snip

PoM existed way before the 2m meta so its removal was unnecesary, afflatus missery too, it was 1m cycle which is the exact same cycle whm is operating in the dev build (3x 20s lillies, 2x 30s sanctitity, 60s temperance...), most of the skills they removed were unnecesary to remove the 2m meta and in fact Whm didn't need to lose anything because being a selfish job it did not have buffs that played into that meta and could operate as its own thing.

Afflatus missery was never part of 2m meta in its conception, it was a refund mechanic to allow Whm GCD healing which, fun fact, is the exact same as sanctity, they literlaly stripped Whm bare and as new mechanics they are giving back a reskin of already existing ones but watered down.


We absolute SHOULD NOT wait until December to voice our concers, by that moment the changes are already done and the game is too late to be fixed it is RN when we should call out the devs for the absolute mess that evolved Whm is

[Supersnow845]

POM has existed since literally ARR and it used to be used to pump out GCD healing faster when you really needed it

[Valence]

Leaning into the identity of GCD healing shouldn’t mean “there is no downside to ever GCD healing, throw out what you want”

Being refunded for literally everything just encourages you to do whatever you want with no downsides, it doesn’t really give you an identity

Agreed but apparently it doesn't refund anything if you overheal so there is definitely a consideration if you want to optimize your healing, then overhealing is literally kneecapping your DPS.

[Heilstos]

The problem I have with those changes are actually the cd on holy sanctuary. Those changes are supposed to let white mage heal "as much as they want" without losing dps. But since holy sanctuary has a 30 seconds CD, then it means that white mage can't use more than 3 heals every 30 seconds without losing dps... This feels nonsensical. I feel like holy sanctuary should not have a CD but should be usable only with at least 1 stack of sanctity. That way, every 3 heals, you are "forced" to cast holy sanctuary in order to gain the right to use other heals without losing dps. But right now, you are forced to not use more than 3 heals every 30 seconds or else you will lose dps. That's weird.

That could be a Problem, by tanks who don't use CDs true. Good point Karuya

One possible way to handle this could be making Glare (or a higher-tier Glare) instant and then pairing it with Tetragrammaton. That would let you weave it comfortably within a single GCD.

Just a rough idea on how this issue could be approached.

[Heilstos]

PoM existed way before the 2m meta so its removal was unnecesary, afflatus missery too, it was 1m cycle which is the exact same cycle whm is operating in the dev build (3x 20s lillies, 2x 30s sanctitity, 60s temperance...), most of the skills they removed were unnecesary to remove the 2m meta and in fact Whm didn't need to lose anything because being a selfish job it did not have buffs that played into that meta and could operate as its own thing.

Afflatus missery was never part of 2m meta in its conception, it was a refund mechanic to allow Whm GCD healing which, fun fact, is the exact same as sanctity, they literlaly stripped Whm bare and as new mechanics they are giving back a reskin of already existing ones but watered down.


We absolute SHOULD NOT wait until December to voice our concers, by that moment the changes are already done and the game is too late to be fixed it is RN when we should call out the devs for the absolute mess that evolved Whm is

I do understand the frustration here. It never feels good when familiar skills get removed, especially ones that have been part of a job’s identity for a long time. There’s a certain comfort and mastery tied to those abilities, so losing them can feel like the job is being stripped down.
At the same time, I think this is part of a broader direction the devs are taking. With so many jobs in the game now, it seems like they’re trying to sharpen identities and reduce overlap, so that each job feels more distinct rather than everyone having a bit of everything. That kind of restructuring will naturally mean that some skills fall away or get folded into other systems.
I also wouldn’t judge the impact too early. We don’t have final potency numbers yet, and overall balance isn’t just about individual skills. It’s also about encounter design and how damage and healing expectations are tuned. Losing a button doesn’t automatically mean losing effectiveness if that power is redistributed elsewhere.
So while I get why it feels rough right now, I think it’s worth seeing how the full kit plays in practice before calling it a complete loss.

We should be fair as community to give Mr. Prime (aka Mr. Tamaki) the time he needs to cook something good.

[WaxSw]

I do understand the frustration here. It never feels good when familiar skills get removed, especially ones that have been part of a job’s identity for a long time. There’s a certain comfort and mastery tied to those abilities, so losing them can feel like the job is being stripped down.
At the same time, I think this is part of a broader direction the devs are taking. With so many jobs in the game now, it seems like they’re trying to sharpen identities and reduce overlap, so that each job feels more distinct rather than everyone having a bit of everything. That kind of restructuring will naturally mean that some skills fall away or get folded into other systems

They are not doing that with Whm? Literally it has the same identity of healing with GCDs as the Reborn one but somehow even simpler and more monotone?

I also wouldn’t judge the impact too early. We don’t have final potency numbers yet, and overall balance isn’t just about individual skills. It’s also about encounter design and how damage and healing expectations are tuned. Losing a button doesn’t automatically mean losing effectiveness if that power is redistributed elsewhere.

I dont need the potency numbers to know that the playstyle is going to be oversimplified, is as simple as:

A) Fully charged sanctity is a gain: Then we spam glare 18/24 gcds per minute, 4 go to gcd heals and 2 to sanctity: 75% glarespam
B) Fully charged sanctitiy is not a gain: Then we spam glare 22/24, 2 to Sacntity: 91% glarespam

They are not going to change content design because reborn is still there, old content is still there. We have been fed the same lie for 7 years already.

So while I get why it feels rough right now, I think it’s worth seeing how the full kit plays in practice before calling it a complete loss.

We should be fair as community to give Mr. Prime (aka Mr. Tamaki) the time he needs to cook something good.

We should tell Mr.Prime RN what works and doesnt before he burns the whole kitchen, when the dish is ready to be served the damage is already done, is during the cooking that fixes can be made

[Heilstos]

snip

I get what you’re saying, and I think that’s a fair concern, especially when it comes to gameplay depth and not just numbers.

At the same time, I’m not sure it’s entirely fair to say nothing has changed in terms of identity. The shift seems to be more about how you reach your damage output rather than how often you press Glare. The idea that healing decisions feed more directly into your damage still seems to be there, just structured differently than before.
Also, even if the loop looks simpler on paper, that doesn’t always translate 1:1 into how it feels in actual encounters. A lot depends on how often you’re required to heal, how fights are paced, and how those tools interact under pressure.

I do agree though that feedback shouldn’t wait until everything is finalized, early impressions are important. I just think there’s a difference between calling out concerns and already concluding that the job is fundamentally broken before we’ve had a chance to play it in real scenarios.
So yeah, I’d say: raise concerns now, absolutely, but maybe keep some room open for how it actually plays out in practice.

[Karuya]

That could be a Problem, by tanks who don't use CDs true. Good point Karuya

One possible way to handle this could be making Glare (or a higher-tier Glare) instant and then pairing it with Tetragrammaton. That would let you weave it comfortably within a single GCD.

Just a rough idea on how this issue could be approached.

I'm not only talking about that, it's more like a "philosophy" problem. I'm talking about, if you have to heal your team more than 3 times with medica because there are a lot of aoe damages(or if you just want to do it for no reason because you want to waste your mana), then it means you will lose dps because sanctuary has a 30 seconds cd, so you won't have enough sanctuary to consume every sanctity stack you get.

This doesn't fit the "we want people to be free to heal just like they want" mentality that YoshiP and M.Prime talked about. In my opinion, the only limit you should have in regard to the amount of healing you chose to use should not be your sanctuary cd, it should be your mana, so yeah i think sanctuary should not have a cd, if a situation requires to use more than 3 heals in 30 seconds, you should be able to do : medica * 3 -> sanctuary -> medica * 3 -> sanctuary ... I'm of course using an extreme example and i don't think we should ever need to cast 6 medica, but we should be free to do so if we want, if we follow the mentality devs talked about.