Normal editor tools. When?

[Solowing]

People usually upsets about lost opportunities rather than gaining new ones... You said that an artist creates a work, not a tool. So if its works become worse or lose the depth, then this is the fault of the artist, not the tool.
The ability to adapt to new things (which came many years after the game’s release) is the key skill of a good creator.

Im sorry for editing a lot lol

Here the thing for me. Once I get a Z axis. Its a friction-less tool in my hands. What limits can I push, if you removed the limits? How can you innovate when you've given everyone "the great equalizer"

Lofting in itself was the innovation that changed the housing game. Now that's standardized. What's something someone can do that stands out, when the thing that allows you to stand out is given to everyone? If everyone stand out, noone stands out.

No, I'm not making a void house lol

Remember its not against you way. Its just a grumbling in the something lost.

but I feel like creating a FC room dojo so I can Roleplay a Housing version of Pai-Mei.lol

[Moon_Rabbit]

Here the thing for me. Once I get a Z axis. Its a friction-less tool in my hands. What limits can I push, if you removed the limits?

Let me remind you that you are still limited to only one axis of rotation of objects xD

How can you innovate when you've given everyone "the great equalizer" Lofting in itself was the innovation that changed the housing game. Now that's standardized. What's something someone can do that stands out, when the thing that allows you to stand out is given to everyone? If everyone stand out, noone stands out.

Are you worried that your work will lose some exclusivity? But what about fair competition? If everyone have same instruments, so its a question of pure design skills only, right?
No secret glitches or some sneaky tools, everyone equal in possibilities. Overcome yourself or loose in the attempts, im fine with it and want to see more better works :3

[Khryseis_Astra]

I mean to me it’s the equivalent of painting with some leaves attached to a twig as opposed to having an actual paintbrush. The creativity is in the placement of the furnishings, not how much of a pita it takes to execute that. lol

I can understand the feeling of satisfaction you get from doing it the hard way now. But I think the creativity itself is separate.

[Solowing]

Let me remind you that you are still limited to only one axis of rotation of objects xD


Are you worried that your work will lose some exclusivity? But what about fair competition? If everyone have same instruments, so its a question of pure design skills only, right?
No secret glitches or some sneaky tools, everyone equal in possibilities. Overcome yourself or loose in the attempts, im fine with it and want to see more better works :3

Worried? No. But it does.

Fair competition? What are we competing for? With the current housing system and as a playstation exclusive user. You can see and tell exactly how much work went into it. Not a word has to be said. My Housing units are their own statements. No tools, just me, the system limitations, and the ability to work around those limitations and find creative solutions to the "roadblocks" you cant bypass. To create something emergent but still perfect as it is.

[Solowing]

I mean to me it’s the equivalent of painting with some leaves attached to a twig as opposed to having an actual paintbrush. The creativity is in the placement of the furnishings, not how much of a pita it takes to execute that. lol

I take that pita as a unintended friction that allows for emergent moments. Not it needs to stay bad, but what's lost is a lateral level of thinking.

[Moon_Rabbit]

Worried? No. But it does.
Fair competition? What are we competing for?

To find something that will make your home stand out from the crowd? I mean the innovations.

With the current housing system and as a playstation exclusive user. You can see and tell exactly how much work went into it. Not a word has to be said. My Housing units are their own statements. No tools, just me, the system limitations, and the ability to work around those limitations and find creative solutions to the "roadblocks" you cant bypass. To create something emergent but still perfect as it is.

But art isn't about time spent? And it's not the process only. It's about the result. If you'd spent just one day on your home instead of weeks, would you no longer like it?

[Ayan_Calvesse]

I take that pita as a unintended friction that allows for emergent moments. Not it needs to stay bad, but what's lost is a lateral level of thinking.

Respectfully disagree.

As someone that has done stuff the "old fashioned way"; Your point is true that it engages your creativity - but using tools does likewise as those tools may (and do for example) open up options you do not have. Iteration born of your initial hardship can be augmented with the introduction of greater tools. I think the MoP comparison is perhaps "unfair" as Blizzard stripped the foundation of character identity when the new talent system came into place - you were not gaining a tool; you were overall losing tools and with that loss the options those tools provided. While it is true for example many players will never learn how to do floats or inverted mounts - the addition of those tools will also result in their ability to interact with the 3d space being improved and thus open avenues of discovery that could very well augment what otherwise could not be done due to either technical limitations or merely the freeing up of mental bandwidth.

[Solowing]

Respectfully disagree.

As someone that has done stuff the "old fashioned way"; Your point is true that it engages your creativity - but using tools does likewise as those tools may (and do for example) open up options you do not have. Iteration born of your initial hardship can be augmented with the introduction of greater tools. I think the MoP comparison is perhaps "unfair" as Blizzard stripped the foundation of character identity when the new talent system came into place - you were not gaining a tool; you were overall losing tools and with that loss the options those tools provided. While it is true for example many players will never learn how to do floats or inverted mounts - the addition of those tools will also result in their ability to interact with the 3d space being improved and thus open avenues of discovery that could very well augment what otherwise could not be done due to either technical limitations or merely the freeing up of mental bandwidth.

That raises the skill floor but it doesn't raise the skill ceiling. You're not really benefiting anybody who's already entrenched in the system.You're just making an accessible for everyone else without adding anything new to it.

Where does that mental bandwidth with go? When you removed the need to use it and there's nothing to take its place?

And even so, let's say, if we find an innovation, the players are gonna demand have that standardized as well. You cant innovate, because the innovation is going is gonna be demanded to be standardized. Anything that stands out the players demanded to be given to everybody.So everybody stands out , but in doing so , nobody's stands out.

[Solowing]

To find something that will make your home stand out from the crowd? I mean the innovations.



But art isn't about time spent? And it's not the process only. It's about the result. If you'd spent just one day on your home instead of weeks, would you no longer like it?

Is the thing if the players want anything that makes them stand out standardized then how can you stand out? What's if the players found another glitch that innovate , right? Just like the lofts that helped innovate housing, we're gonna demand that be standardized and given to everyone.So that you've then standardized the innovation its not innovation, its just a glitch watching to get a dev patch

In a game where the only innovation was the loft , what innovations next? People say innovation's gonna come , but has no idea what innovation even looks like looks like. Especially when they asked for the master key that never tells them no.

You can't break limits when there are none, you can't innovate when there's nothing to innovate. It's a perfect tool with no flaws. If you're trying to make a system with no friction. It's like trying to write a story about a omnipotent perfect God main character. They're boring characters , because there's no friction to give them texture. It's a flat character that offers no pushback , no questions no conundrum to work out. People loved flawed character , because you can see the struggle , the growth, the relation.

If they do put the z,s in game , it doesn't change anything , and just simply devalues the work done by those who mastered the system over time, but also flattens out the skill curve.

I don't know, people say we're going to find another innovation? Anything you innovate will simply be copy/ pasted or demanded that it be standardized so everyone can create that innovation, which was now standardized

I'm just not a fan of the commodification of discovery is all.

[Solowing]

How is Endwalker so well received if players dont believe in its message?

An absolutely hate Dawntrail that preaches the exact same messaging that the players champion?

Im just saying...