Question: Do we have enough content for high-end and casual equally?

[Calysto]

Figured I'd ask since there's a lot of people who've given me the canned answer of "There's no content(I want to do)." when I've asked in some friend circles. I remember in one interview Yoshida went into depth about how they're trying to make content to accomodate all levels, but personally it feels like they keep missing the mark.

I'm not sure what in the world they'll do about it in 8.0, but the other problem I think we had this expac was they spread their focus too broadly in terms of what content to make available outside of their usual application(Beast Tribes, MSQ, Raid Tier in particular).

This can be said since we had not only Cosmic Exploration, we also had Pilgrim's Traverse(Deep Dungeon), Occult Crescent(Exploration Content) with North Horn coming in .55 probably, and to top it off we had The Merchant's Tale(Variant Dungeon). That's a lot in just one expansion to push, and I think from development it might make sense given the size of the team; of course I don't fault them for letting their juniors attempt some things, but most people argue it's about rewards over everything else which is understandable in current state.

I just want to understand why they release content at a pace where we get a drought in a live service landscape that's pushing out updates almost bi-monthly.

I guess the team tried to do the bare minimum of what was promised for DT.
Beside Blu they that got canceled, we were also supposed to get at least 2 variant (it was plural in the 2024 fan-fest slide)...

[tsuchii]

The problem isn't the volume of casual content - it's its replayability.

High-end content like savage and ultimates are not a lot but it takes commitment and time, which in turn makes it more time-consuming and rewarding when you complete it.

Meanwhile, many examples of normal content is done once, and it's pretty much over already.

[Valence]

Yeah shelf life of casual content is the big stickler for sure. They'd need to churn out gigantic amounts to ever dare challenge savage+ in terms of hours spent in there. PT seemed to perform a little bit better with its new deep dungeon format there, but nowhere near close though. Perhaps Eureka/Bozja were a better answer, and i'm saying this as someone that's never really been much into their core; grindy experience.

I feel like this is the wrong question. I think the right question would be how to get casual players to engage more with difficult content.

Why would they want to do that?

More importantly, why should difficult content be the endgame for everyone? Genuinely asking, what is the purpose of that goal? To reduce development resources allocated to different difficulty modes?

And even then, if you increase the amount of people that tentatively get into savage+ and get it from 50% to 70%, what is it going to achieve? What about the 30% remainder?

The overwhelming majority of content in this game is casual. It may not all be content that appeals to you specifically, but to try to argue that everything is catering to hardcore players ridiculous.

That's the catch isn't it? In terms of general content, it isn't. But in terms of pve? It kinda is actually.

Pick your metric I guess, it tends to dramatically shift the narrative for sure.

There's literally only 3 savage tiers and 2 ultimates per expansion for high end content. Literally every single other thing is casual.

And how many hours do those 3 savage tiers and 2 ultimates account for? Versus how many hours do you spend on storymode pve? On week no lifing the msq and leveling up, then what? 3h per patch msq, then 20min per reclear every week on raids and whatnot for like a couple of months at best?

The only thing that's actually taken me significantly more hours than savage+ in this game has ironically been a niche content that requires a dramatically pitiful amount of dev resources in comparison, which is ranked pvp.

Comparing content pieces by amount of titles/releases makes no sense, but comparing by the actual amount of time and enjoyment one gets out of them, aka the bangs for your bucks you get with a single piece of content, sounds like a better metric to me.

[Solowing]

Snip

Something in the early years was lost in the modern era of WoW. And part of it is that sense of camaraderie, unity, faction pride, and conflict. I don't think that era truly left. The game started sanding down the edges, and smoothing out all the points of conflict

To me I guess its "Whats a good stories without a few conflicts along the way?" There's a story to tell in that. But when you sand it down to be super easy for the most common denominator. It because a story about a perfect character in a perfect world where nothing ever goes wrong. "The End"

No. I remember the Vietnam that is STV on a PVP server.

Watching my friend get yanked across Booty Bay, because he looked at a Blood Elf. "Asked me "What that guy?" As I look around I see the purple Death grip yanking him across the Bay to 1 shot him. Bro was so starstruck but the badassery, he unlocked his own "gamer stand" lol BloodGhost he calls himself. After he rushed to unlock Death Knight.

In the early levels trying to explore the dark side of the woods and realize the atmosphere had weight, and "sh*t just real, ain't no greenhorns gonna be found in this neck of the woods" And those Spiders didn't mess around. And getting lost in the Crypt and having to methodically having to fight your way back out to avoid dying.

Having to sweat bullets having to stand Infront of Ogrimmar trying to get this horde to throw the sweet potatoes on my plate. Before the level 15 wanna try me to get first blood to get me swarmed by horde. So I had to measure letting him live to keep the peace, or 1 shot them to "keep um quiet"

Or the Awkward run in with the opposite factions while trying your friends through Scholomance.


Moments like that give the game its texture. I like XIVs story, but it plays it too safe leveling-wise. I want risk, I want gamesystems that passively require teamwork and encourage camaraderie.

I enjoy XIVs story, but there is nothing memorable in the gameplay. Its just placeholder time killer to waste my time to getting to level cap. Its visually amazing, I love zone looks, Ultima Thule by far is my favorite. But I want the zones to have a soul, a personality. But you ask anyone about the Defias Brother-Hood, Murlocs, or The Stranglethorne Vale Medicine Man" Or even the simple Gamond (I was alliance exclusive and even Ive heard of him)

Funny story about that same friend in Booty Bay, he decided to follow after my friend trying to get the "Insane" title. And I warned him, "Bro if you do this any neutral goblin faction will attack on sight". him "Whatever its no big deal, I'll just kill them if they get in my way"

Cataclysm: [B][U]Buffs all guards

Friend: Realized he cut off his own transfer hub spaces and was forced to take the long route to the zones he wanted to go to, but didn't have the patience to grind his reputation back up LOL

[SyferU]

Comparing content pieces by amount of titles/releases makes no sense, but comparing by the actual amount of time and enjoyment one gets out of them, aka the bangs for your bucks you get with a single piece of content, sounds like a better metric to me.

You mean the metric in favor of casual content since by nature casual content has less longevity, especially with the casual community being against grinding content.

Just wait until Beastmaster comes out, people are gonna lose interest after 1 day and than start posting about how 10 more levels of Blue Mage would have fixed the game instead.

[MayuAmakura]

There is casual content but very boring one and not enticing for everyone. Most are very repetitive and players would rather log out than try to play them *once more*.

[Eastwall]

I have done savage and some ultimates in party finder and have never used discord so you should be fine.

l did pf clear savage too. lt is a miserable experience, and with that experience under my belt, l can confidently tell you that hardcore content isn't for everyone.

[Bryson]

I think that XIV could benefit from content that is solo-optional and that is also a means of progressing. It helps gently nudge people along into harder content by forcing them to get better, at their own pace.

For example, I think WoW is in a better state than it has been in a very long time, specifically because they have more branches of progression than ever before.

Delves and the new Prey system can both be run solo or with a small group. If you're interested in their mechanics, look them up.

Before someone comes in to say 'well just play WoW then'. I do. I also play XIV.
But, and I want to stress this: I didn't enjoy WoW before they implemented these systems.

I was, sincerely, someone who never once stepped foot inside even a Normal raid unless I was forced and/or carried.
Now, only weeks after the Midnight expansion launched, I am successfully completing Heroic raids with friends, and I am by far not the only person who has had this near-identical experience. Not because the option wasn't always there to 'get good' but because now there is a clear bridge between them that I can follow at my own pace. The systems I mentioned before will have you learn your toolkit to progress, which makes you a more confident and skilled player, in an environment that never needs to leave solo play, if you don't want it to.

More options, outside of 'just wait for the content to become less hard', is a good thing.
Stealing genuinely good ideas is not only allowed, but encouraged and has been done before.
When 1.0 failed, one of the MMOs that FFXIV borrowed heavily off of was WoW, and Yoshi P himself has confirmed this. The currency system is basically a copy and paste from WotLK era WoW.

We are long past that era now, however, and I really believe that they would benefit from taking another look at how other MMOs have helped bridge the gap. One that doesn't involve just doing Duty Finder over and over ad nauseum until the content becomes insignificant enough to do at your current play-level. Give people incentive to become better, at their own pace, and they will.

funny you bring up wow because I've always been playing midnight and I think it does a lot of things better than xiv, namely abundance > scarcity when it comes to gearing. I think people (na mostly) on xiv have this weird conflation with "casual" and "incapable of doing anything that requires your brain to even be somewhat on." It's a very patronizing way to perceive people imo. It wasn't until recently (again i've played since phase 1 beta arr) that I've heard people unironically tell me "cAsUaLs dOn'T rAiD." This was news to me because from arr - shb, I played casually. I wasn't aware me doing so, somehow barred me from content they deemed "high end." Was it harder to clear in pf? sure, did it take longer? probably. Can I still do it if i choose to? yes.

[Bryson]

I'm not trying to argue that everything is, but right now, it feels like casual players are not receiving good treatment.
Hardcore players got so many new styles of content this expansion it's insane. You got Quantum, Chaotic... Even the raids were so good from what people have said.
Look at casual/midcore. We got Merchant's Tale (Advanced), which was good, but the Occult Crescent sucks and Forked Tower Blood is hard difficulty only.
It just feels like what we do have isn't cutting it, while all the hardcore players are eating a feast.

I have friends who play casually and they've cleared everything that I have. Their main mmo is wow, so they just dabble on xiv. Hit up pf here and there, clear the content and log off. I also played casually up until EW (juggling ft college and ft job and living in japan for a bit.. didnt have time to commit to a static). I didn't havea problem with clearing what I wanted to in pf. I knew it'd take longer prior to begin with. That's granted given you're in pf.

what makes a player "hardcore" even? if someone is unemployed and lives on xiv, are they more or less "hardcore" than someone who plays a couple hours a couple days a week but clears all the content? This casual/hc framework is too reductive.

[Bryson]

If I want to prog anything, I have to set aside the whole day just to find a group to do it. As a college student, I often do not have the time or energy to set aside my day to prog something. I have fun when I do, but there's a time and a place for it, and I simply don't have the energy to prog all day, every day... Most of the time I just want to have fun and to run some easy content and chat with people. Combined with being someone who is terrible at studying and very much so a hands-on learner, I really don't want to do harder content all the time.

That's a you thing though? Someone could feel the exact same way irrespective of where you place them on the "casual" vs "hardcore" binary? Inversely, someone could be unemployed and have all the time in the world (that's to say nothing irl inhibitating them) and still feel the same way as you. All content has been cleared in pf.. sure you have to wait longer for it to fill sometimes, but that's granted given it's not a static. The players going into pf knew that prior to joining.

DF isn't a thing on NA because of na's entitlement mentality.. (3 pull count andies who also refuse to look up any strats or even remotely try to learn the mechs).