12 Gods of Hell(Where are 12 hells/realms in FF14?)

[TempusFinis]

That's probably exactly how the seven hells and the seven heavens exist; Eorzeans seem to be mighty capable of believing things into existence. Probably unintentional creation magic, to be honest. Though to be fair, even Athena and Lahabrea invoke them, so it's not outside possibility that there really are some sort of seven heavens and hells, somewhere.

As far as the hellhound armor and all that goes, I'm assuming the designs come from Eorzeans seeing voidsent. Voidsent literally run around towns handing out cookies, so it's not like it's unusual for an Eorzean to have seen one.

Exactly!!! If we look at how the "Ageless Necropolis" was brought into existence, it was created with the "fear of death" of a very small population on the Source. The Source is also known as the world of Hydaelyn and also as Etheirys.



"Being thus forced to confront the realities of mortal existence, what then filled their hearts was a dark and unreasoning terror. Harnessing this heightened fear of death for his own ends, a genius of an age gone by now channels the people's desperate prayers for succor into a new primal incarnation." -In game description

We have over 12000 Years of Sins from the different Populations of the Source, channeling the people's sins into several primal incarnations with virtually uncapped power. Based on the FF14 folklore and the duality theme, I thinks it's very reasonable to think that the Realms of Hell exist, manifesting and powering the Gods of Hell for over 12,000 years. And I think the bottomless hole near the Ridorana Lighthouse could be a great location, and I would not be surprised that some sort of powerful Diabolos lurks on the Source, like Zodiark on the moon.




But it still begs these questions,
1) Why did all the Ancients want to leave back to the star?
2) Why did they wait until the WoL were stronger than them to leave?

Perhaps, the Ancients knew there were more powerful enemies on the source...so they waited to leave...

Your thoughts?

[Jeeqbit]

I felt like in Endwalker, Pandaemonium was a horrible experiment that went bad. The ancients had captured and caged different monsters from different worlds, and Athena was trying to achieve godhood. So, I felt that it really did not cover the Realms of Hell or even the origins of Diablo. If that was indeed the intention of the developers, it leaves open a lot of questions...like where did these hellish monsters come from?

I just really do feel like it was the intention of the developers, because we can't ignore how they took this very strange step of making us go underground, where a hell would theoretically be located, to find Pandaemonium in the present time.

We can't ignore that Pandæmonium is the capital of Hell in John Milton’s Paradise Lost nor that it means "all demons" or "all-demon-place" in Greek.

We also can't ignore the artwork that gives off the vibe that half the mask is on fire, which was intended to say Lahabrea is back and taking us to hell (we didn't know we'd go back in time at the time this was released):

[Astronis]

I just really do feel like it was the intention of the developers, because we can't ignore how they took this very strange step of making us go underground, where a hell would theoretically be located, to find Pandaemonium in the present time.

We did have Tomestones of (The Divine) Comedy at the time, too.

[Voidmage]

By the way, even if the hells existed, it wouldn't mean there are gods down there.
Even in the creation myth, the hells were byproducts and (correct me if I am wrong) there was never a mention of God's there.
Nald'Thals governed basically over the decision.
While it's definitely true that the hells could exists simply because of how beliefs influence aether like with primals (it could theoretically be a primal in itself) and such, nothing suggests counterparts to the twelve.
There also wouldn't be sinners there or such because we do know exactly how the afterlife in FFxiv works, namely that you are broken down in the Aetherial sea if you aren't an ancient soul with strong memories and emotions being the only thing that can linger there for some time.

So in the end the seven hells would be something entirely different either empty, with its own beings or maybe unfortunate souls who stumbled there.
It's important to note that the seven hells are also only the belief of Eorzeans.

I think the closest we would get to the hells (if they don't exist as a pseudo primal) are the 13th and the realm between worlds.
I guess a primal version would truly be the closest to the whole thing and an interesting take actually.
Instead of an entity, it's a place that is summoned. Alexander actually was pretty close to such a thing given it's sheer scale and purpose.

Edit:
I think this topic is far too interesting to get buried in General Discussion tbh. It kinda belongs into the Lore part of the forum.

[Kunzite_Lockhart]

The problem with FFXIV, in my opinion, is that you can't really come up with anything cool, since everything is explained by aether, Allagans, Ascians, or whatever—no real mystery, no gods, demons, or anything. It's always explained "scientifically."

[Enkidoh]

That's because this is a Japanese developed game, a country where less than 1% identify as Judeo-Christian (most Japanese are a mixture of Shinto and Buddhist), so that is reflected as a more agnostic viewpoint towards spirituality in their popular culture like the FF series (and hence FFXIV). Specifically, it's clear there are no real 'gods' in FFXIV's universe, every one shown so far has been a false entity created through a bastardistation of Ancient creation magic, huge amounts of aether, and the power of belief (or something similar along those lines).

And it was revealed fairly early on that the 'afterlife' in FFXIV's universe is not a psuedo Abrahamic idea of heaven and hell, but instead a variation of FFVII's Lifestream concept, in itself taken from Buddhist belief and the writings of biologists Lynn Margulis and James Lovelock, in that the afterlife is a cycle of constant reincarnation; where the planet is essentially a living entity that all life is born from (as energy) and thus returns to it in death, to become a intrinstic part of it and to eventually be reborn in a new form (I mean, it was even literally called the 'Lifestream' by Eorzeans for much of ARR's life, and has since sort of been retconned in name as 'the Aetherial Sea' from EW onward). The 'seven heavens and hells' in Eorzean belief are just empty beliefs with no actual basis in how things are in Hydaelyn's reality at all I'm sorry to say.

Anything that shows spirits in a pseudo afterlife other than the Lifestream is an artificial construct or a result of aetherial manipulation and is not a real heaven or hell (even the Void, long regarded as a hell like dimension, is just Hydaelyn's Thirteenth Shard warped by the Flood of Darkness and is tipped permanantly to that element. Ditto with the First Shard being almost lost to the element of Light and hence the warped angelic like entities that were created as a result.).

(Also it's actually meant to be six heavens and hells, not seven - that was a deliberate error on Michael Christopher Koji Fox's part, where in keeping with his passion for thinking up interesting swear words Eorzeans cuss, felt that "Six Hells!" as a cuss wouldn't roll of the tongue as well as seven does. So, it became Seven Hells! (and thus Seven Heavens too) accordingly, and the contradiction with Eorzean religious belief of the Twelve just ignored in universe. Bsaically, it's just to make a better sounding swear word! This was revealed at a lore panel at a past Fanfest many years ago).

[TempusFinis]

Because yoshi-p said that ff14 could be a theme park for the final fantasy universe, I feel that the Hell idea would be a great opportunity for the developers to introduce other aspects of the Final Fantasy Universe, such as themes and characters from Final Fantasy Type-0 and other series.

Also, these characters below could be used in those Realms of Hell.

Tsukuyomi



Occuria





Maduin








Chaos








Promathia








Etro




Zomala




Kujata



Your thoughts?

[Astronis]

Your thoughts?

I think...if you think FFXIV needs to find a place to put Tsukuyomi, you need to play more FFXIV.

[Enkidoh]

I think...if you think FFXIV needs to find a place to put Tsukuyomi, you need to play more FFXIV.

^This. Also several of those other enemies listed are already in the game too in various ways (Chaos is in the final Omega raid Alphascape, Kujata is just a run of the mill bull enemy that appears as part of the MRD class quests, and it's all but guaranteed Promathia is going to be appearing in the final still to come FFXI raid.).

SE will continue to use enemies and names from past FF games in FFXIV in new ways or as fanservice, don't worry about that.

[Iscah]

Also it's actually meant to be six heavens and hells, not seven - that was a deliberate error on Michael Christopher Koji Fox's part [...]

My understanding is that it wasn't an "error" but a request he made to the lore planners at the development stage for them to adjust the planned cosmology so he could have the "seven hells" swear.