DRK and HP sacrifice

[ThorinG]

My suggestion is simple, implement HP sacrifice to (Shadowbringer) ability, similar to PVP but we will adjust it a bit, here are the details:

1. Shadowbringer will be always available for use, but it will have a cost of (30%) of your HP.

2. We will introduce a new resource, lets call it (Shadowheart), having 3 stacks of it will nullify the HP cost of Shadowbringer, as the 3 stacks will be consumed instead of HP.

3. (Shadowheart) stacks are gained by:
A. Blood Gauge skills (Bloodspiller & Quietus): Each attack provides 1 stack.
B. Delirium Skills (Scarlet Combo attacks & impalement): Each attack provides 1 stack.
C. The activation of Delirium ability: the activation by itself will also provide 1 free use of Shadowbringers via (Shadowbringers ready).

Note: meaning at the very least, you will have access to 2 (Shadowbringer) uses during the Delirium combo.

4. Since Shadowbringer is lv.90 ability, we can introduce a prior version at a lower level, such as (Dark Passenger) which can be learned at lv.64, along with Quietus.

tell me what you think? it might be broken or stupid, but i like the idea of always having the temptation of sacrificing HP for damage.

[Espon]

It would probably be better for the healer to just spam heals on the dark knight instead of trying to DPS so they can weave 2 Shadowbringers every GCD.

[ThorinG]

It would probably be better for the healer to just spam heals on the dark knight instead of trying to DPS so they can weave 2 Shadowbringers every GCD.

Depending on the content...yeah, it absolutely can happen.

It will balance out WAR and PLD, whom requires almost no healing.

[Shurrikhan]

It's broken under present tuning and likely to be either irrelevant or degenerative under almost any other tuning point, which would make it at least wasteful, even if not necessarily stupid.

Let's assume for a moment that a healer can put out ~25% tank HP per GCD via Cure II or equivalent. This means that any extra free HPS via healer CDs just can be converted into damage so long as the raid has a DRK. Thereafter, moreover, it means that each healer can sacrifice a GCD of offense for a GCD (effectively 351 to 450p ST or 182 to 195p AoE due to Maim and Mend) with an extra Shadowbringer (600p ST + 450p AoE), for the cost of just 600 mp per GCD. That means the healer pair of, say, AST-SCH, can easily squeeze out at least some extra 2600 raid potency per minute unless Shadowbringer were nerfed even assuming there wasn't a single bit of oGCD healing to spare before (else, higher still). And if nerfed, then where would be the oomph of DRK's level 90 ability?

And if you're adding an extra 6 Shadowbringers per minute via Delirium for free before even having any HP cost... it'd just be a spammy noodle of a skill even before balancing out the healer-based stuff.

[ThorinG]

It's broken under present tuning and likely to be either irrelevant or degenerative under almost any other tuning point, which would make it at least wasteful, even if not necessarily stupid.

Let's assume for a moment that a healer can put out ~25% tank HP per GCD via Cure II or equivalent. This means that any extra free HPS via healer CDs just can be converted into damage so long as the raid has a DRK. Thereafter, moreover, it means that each healer can sacrifice a GCD of offense for a GCD (effectively 351 to 450p ST or 182 to 195p AoE due to Maim and Mend) with an extra Shadowbringer (600p ST + 450p AoE), for the cost of just 600 mp per GCD. That means the healer pair of, say, AST-SCH, can easily squeeze out at least some extra 2600 raid potency per minute unless Shadowbringer were nerfed even assuming there wasn't a single bit of oGCD healing to spare before (else, higher still). And if nerfed, then where would be the oomph of DRK's level 90 ability?

And if you're adding an extra 6 Shadowbringers per minute via Delirium for free before even having any HP cost... it'd just be a spammy noodle of a skill even before balancing out the healer-based stuff.

Yeah i see your point, maybe if my percentage and resources requirements were adjusted a little it will help, such as:
1. Increasing the HP sacrifice percentage to 30%
2. Increase the (ShadowHeart) stacks requirement to 3.
3. The Activation of Delirium does not provide (SH) stacks anymore, but rather gives a free Shadowbringer use via (Shadowbringer ready).

[Shurrikhan]

Yeah i see your point, maybe if my percentage and resources requirements were adjusted a little it will help, such as:
1. Increasing the HP sacrifice percentage to 30%
2. Increase the (ShadowHeart) stacks requirement to 3.
3. The Activation of Delirium does not provide (SH) stacks anymore, but rather gives a free Shadowbringer use via (Shadowbringer ready).

It'd still be increasing the number of Shadowbringer casts from 1 free cast per minute to 2 with a max of 27 casts per minute if double-weaving them. Like... why do that to our nuke?

[Carighan]

It would probably be better for the healer to just spam heals on the dark knight instead of trying to DPS so they can weave 2 Shadowbringers every GCD.

Please don't tempt me with a good time (healers actually healing).

[Mikey_R]

Don't forget DPS like Summoner, Dancer and Reaper all have party heals on a low cooldown and Monk and Pictomancer also have heals every 2 minutes, not to mention the heals generated by the other tanks. It just isn't wise to have a skill that uses HP as a resource, even if you can negate the HP cost via some other means.

[Sparkthor]

My suggestion is simple, implement HP sacrifice to (Shadowbringer) ability, similar to PVP but we will adjust it a bit, here are the details:

1. Shadowbringer will be always available for use, but it will have a cost of (30%) of your HP.

2. We will introduce a new resource, lets call it (Shadowheart), having 3 stacks of it will nullify the HP cost of Shadowbringer, as the 3 stacks will be consumed instead of HP.

3. (Shadowheart) stacks are gained by:
A. Blood Gauge skills (Bloodspiller & Quietus): Each attack provides 1 stack.
B. Delirium Skills (Scarlet Combo attacks & impalement): Each attack provides 1 stack.
C. The activation of Delirium ability: the activation by itself will also provide 1 free use of Shadowbringers via (Shadowbringers ready).

Note: meaning at the very least, you will have access to 2 (Shadowbringer) uses during the Delirium combo.

4. Since Shadowbringer is lv.90 ability, we can introduce a prior version at a lower level, such as (Dark Passenger) which can be learned at lv.64, along with Quietus.

tell me what you think? it might be broken or stupid, but i like the idea of always having the temptation of sacrificing HP for damage.

Even if the idea is interessing, the fact is in the current context of FFXIV, it cannot be set at all without causing huge issues.
1. If the DRK need to sacrifice HP for being competitive in DPS against other tank, why choose one who will only add pressure to healers (revelent in current hard content)
2. If the HP sacrifice allow the DRK to surpass other tank DPS by a meaningful portion, DRK will became the goto tank and healer will have to adjust to crazy DRK.

By considering this, I don't think the healer role would love theses concerns. But more than my opinions, changes to class and game show the devs don't want to go in this direction.

[Valence]

The reason this works in pvp is because of the resource scarcity available and the model where it isn't sustainable to keep eating burst damage for long before a tank has to retreat, reset aggro and pop an elixir. Another reason is also that healers also have limited healing tools to various degrees and will quickly run out of Cure 2 or whatever to give you, while the bulk of the healing also comes from self recuperates.

A pve system based on such premises would allow DRK to function like this, but as it stands currently, pve isn't built nor designed like this. This is also probably why HW DRK went for a MP based approach, and that's probably where lies your best bet.