Are we expecting TO MUCH from 8.0?

[Selsix]

"Expecting too much"? The only thing I am expecting is a story that isn't so bad I need to take a break from it. Dawntrail had one of the worst stories in any game I've ever played, period. Even in ARR I didn't need to get up from the story and take time away before I could finish it but by the time we hit the goblin village in DT I was absolutely groaning with how awful it all was. Basically for me, 8.0 looks like this:

What I expect: A return to form when it comes to writing, because DT was inexcusably horrid compared to previous expansions.

What I want (but do not expect): Actual midcore content and for them to stop pandering to savage/ultimate players exclusively when releasing new content (like with OC). I am so tired of them making content PF groups and pugs cannot get through without it feeling like pulling teeth, not everyone has a static of competent players and the vast majority of the playerbase cannot handle hardcore content. We also really need broad class redesign, drop the "2 minute meta", take difficulty out of the content a bit and put it back into the jobs because every job currently has an absolutely braindead rotation and they justify this by making every fight an insanely choreographed dance routine. It's very lopsided and tiring.

But as I noted, the latter bit on content and difficulty is just a wish list. My only expectation is for the story to not be utter garbage like DT's was.

[RedLolly]

This focus on one specific part of the playerbase has to stop.

My theory is part of the reason the devs are experimenting with more content that's "midcore" in difficulty and DT's overall jump in base difficulty is to make it easier for casual players to make the jump to EX and Savage.

One extra detail, too, is that the Japanese player base is both more PUG friendly and more reliant of them to do higher difficulty content. They fully utilize the raid finder to do it, and even have their own unique form of macro communication to show which methods they're going to use that fight. They both made it easier to enter but also have different expectations of said randoms.

NA and EU are generally more about statics and generally focus on learning during a short window post release, which severely lowers the amount of players that can just walk into savage at any time.

I don't know how much of that is from WoW's culture bleeding into other MMOs.

[Supersnow845]

To be honest the “do everything to feed people into savage” has two main faults

1) it assumes (which is totally Japan centric) that everyone actually wants to do savage or would do it if given the opportunity. As someone who used to do savage but dropped it in late EW because I simply didn’t enjoy it anymore they won’t convince me do savage again unless they went back to coils and there is alot of people at the other end who will never feel ready to do savage and that isn’t a wrong way to think. A lot of people asking for the nebulous “midcore” don’t actually want a stepping stone to savage, they simply want fulfilling content that isn’t a pushover but also ISNT savage

2) jobs are so deeply intertwined with the game refusing to acknowledge them isn’t helping their marketing for savage. Sure savage is harder which technically makes the jobs more engaging but are you actually being engaged by the job vs the encounter hiding the faults of the job. I know that for example healers while having a role in savage aren’t made better by savage, you trade doing a boring encounter irregularly for a less boring encounter much more frequently that still shows off the endless flaws of the job

[Shinku_Tachi]

A lot of people asking for the nebulous “midcore” don’t actually want a stepping stone to savage, they simply want fulfilling content that isn’t a pushover but also ISNT savage

100, this is me!

I'm not interested in doing Savage anymore. I don't find it fun. I don't want a "stepping stone" to savage. I won't be convinced to do savage.
I like having a bit of battle content that provides a bit more tension than the regular ish, but isn't "slam your head against the wall till you finally clear it" content.

[Asari5]

i agree as well.
i wanna have midcore for the fun of it. as its own thing and not as a stepping stone.

[Valence]

Stopped raiding last tier and I've been very happy about it so far. Not everybody is interested into every piece of content. Expecting people to all go for extremes/savage+ isn't very far off expecting everybody to go for ranked pvp or mahjong to me.

[FeyFavilla]

I don't know how much of that is from WoW's culture bleeding into other MMOs.

Probably bleeding in quite a lot because that is exactly how WoW does it. WoW raids beyond Normal (which is the first step above the difficulty you can queue for, their naming is a bit different) absolutely require a solid, practiced team, often with VC for interrupts and mechanics that require on the fly adaptation. Pugging is seen as a chore due to having to pick up players who are not familiar with each other and add a variable to the fight that makes it harder to clear.

I am fascinated to see that Japan figured out a way to circumvent this system and it does sound far more kind to people who are more casual about end-game instances but I don't see this changing in the west any time soon. It is sadly just another indicator that the devs do not interact with western audiences because if they did this would be known instantly as an issue, though. I do understand that it is difficult to cater to such different gaming cultures but this is not a small indie game. They have millions at their disposal to work out a strategy.

They need to get their ducks in order before 8.0. WoW's currently dropping expansion is not only making the game more accessible to casual players by streamlining the playstyles of classed (jobs), mechanics in fights by removing the necessity to rely on add-ons for bosses as they are breaking into the console market and is adding a whole host of casual content, they have just implemented housing, low entry cost, available to EVERYONE, in a way that is smooth, well rounded and flexibly upgrade-able without even the threat of having everything taken from you if you cancel your sub. I will not go and list all features, but this is a threat. At this point the only things setting FFXIV apart are the visual style and old, long existing communities, which are already decaying due to stagnation and other offending problems.

8.0 has to slap. It HAS TO. The competition is actively sliding into their market. They cannot afford to just do a cookie-cutter expansion. The internet talks. Having to watch other MMOs innovate and move on, be on top of trends and technical progress, listen and communicate with their players will drive people away.

[Xieldras]

they have just implemented housing, low entry cost, available to EVERYONE, in a way that is smooth, well rounded and flexibly upgrade-able without even the threat of having everything taken from you if you cancel your sub.

Housing is a major anchor for a sizeable amount of players (especially those owning rare furniture or a medium/large house). I've only seen a clip of a WoW player making a christmas-themed house and I have to admit I'm jealous.

They have a proper gizmo system that enables clipping and you can scale up or down the items (as well as rotate them without limitation). Already that's a major boon over vanilla housing decorating.

Square needs to innovate, actually innovate.

[Azurarok]

I wouldn't treat JP like a monolith that gladly consumes savage/ultimates. The DDR you fail you wipe's been a common complaint since late Endwalker and people have been leaving over those mechanics bleeding into Extremes and their trying to pull people into Savage+ with Chaotic/Fork Tower and so on. If you look at other corners of the internet you see a lot of comments blasting the game for it, especially nowadays now that many of the defenders turned or left.

[Rithy255]

100, this is me!

I'm not interested in doing Savage anymore. I don't find it fun. I don't want a "stepping stone" to savage. I won't be convinced to do savage.
I like having a bit of battle content that provides a bit more tension than the regular ish, but isn't "slam your head against the wall till you finally clear it" content.

I think this is the thing Jobs make savage more fun when designed well, The devs are avoiding making them fun or interesting because they dont wan't people to "feel bad" about being bad at a job is the same reason they made EW dungeons very bland, DT they slightly improved that but I think jobs need more then "slightly improving" to actually be fun.

People complain theirs nothing to do in particular more these days without realising if the Jobs were unique repeating content on a different job could... possibly make the experience more unique and slightly more fun, trust me theirs much more relics to grind if you have the motivation to play more then one job... The issue is where's that motivation when every job feels the same roles like healer and tank are barely functional in 90% of content ect. Most people do one thing on one job and forget about it, even levelling jobs becomes painful and not exciting anymore (It took me so long to get everything to 100 on my main).

Unironically for me by trying to make jobs appeal to everyone no job really appeals to me for cool different unique design. I was thinking of leveling gearing black mage on my alt (this character) before the changes in 7.2, now I haven't even attempted the new tier because frankly the enjoyment from it was took out already.