Why is Warrior a healer in all but role?

[DaKitten]

So I've been seeing the "Healer not needed." comments again when people start talking about warrior.

As a healer main I kinda take issue with this, If another job is able to completely invalidate the existence of a role I actively enjoy.. Then it's kinda pointless to play that role and thus leaves me with one less thing to enjoy.

Enter stage right: Warrior.

Warrior has 2 HoT's in the form of equilibrium's buff and shake it off's secondary effect, one massive heal (again in the form of equilibrium), A party member heal in the form of nascent flash, and a self heal/shield/damage reduction in the form of bloodwhetting.

That just feels like too much at this point, feels as though SE might as well make my role (healer) into a DPS job and give every single job a self-heal, just remove the holy trinity at this rate.

I really didn't want to contribute to the "Healer strike" mentality that I saw back at dawntrail launch but at the same time it really is an issue people downplay.

Warrior needs a complete rework for the sake of the rest of the games balance.

[RenkoBernkastel]

I'm sorry to say but in normal content healers aren't needed period, no matter which tank you bring if they are half competent.
If roulettes would allow it, I'd run my expert and level 100 dungeons with 4 DPS because non of the support roles do anything meaningful in normal (casual) content and apart from the occasional tank buster, nothing poses a threat anymore.



Edit: phoenix down only makes this easier, because even if you eat a TB and get one-shot (mitigation can prevent this in every dungeon btw.) you can just revive ezpz.
If it wasn't for extremes, savage etc. support roles would be 100% obsolete in this game and I fucking hate it.

[MoonNoire]

Love that WAR gets Benediction on a 25s cooldown starting from the level 56 dungeon whereas the cornerstone of Dark Knight's mitigation is sitting forever at 70 because the job quest mentions TBN by name and it sounds too cool to remove. That or they just don't care about usability in dungeons when you get paired with the average healer. It reminds me of when Paladin used to have its TANK STANCE at level 40 while all other tanks had it at 30 because... uhhhhh...

It's really fun to play, specially when you're soloing stuff, but you get away with so much BS the other tanks can't even dream of achieving, and it feels like it's made that way by design, like "too angry to die" is its identity, which from a lore/anime perspective sounds GREAT, but it spits in the face of the trinity MMO design

What's the point of having a trinity MMO when you have a job that deals quasi-dps bursts of damage, can heal itself back to full health (with the shortest invuln cooldown in the game as a failsafe) with one aoe and on top of all that, is braindead easy to play? And don't give me the "oh, it's not as good in raids" arguments, because equilibrium. The fact the animation is literally shrugging off whatever tank buster you just ate is just the icing on top

"idc"
sounds_of_529859852_dhit_crits_in_a_row.mp3

[Brandr]

I'm sorry to say but in normal content healers aren't needed period, no matter which tank you bring if they are half competent.

If it wasn't for extremes, savage etc. support roles would be 100% obsolete in this game and I fucking hate it.

Does this forum rewards aura points for saying crazy stuff like this?

[RenkoBernkastel]

Does this forum rewards aura points for saying crazy stuff like this?

Run any level 100 dungeon with 4 semi-decent DPS and tell me again how crazy it is.


Level 100 Viper with "Bloodbath" during "Reawaken" is pretty much invulnerable during any size trash pull btw. and so is Reaper during enshroud, so idk what you mean by "crazy"

[Azurarok]

Most dungeons don't really need a healer to go through them and it's often faster to power through with a decent team of 3 dps and 1 tank, especially at capstone levels since we can outgear them so easily.

Been that way since Endwalker decided all tanks should have good self-healing and better dps output than healers.

Whoever decided Bloodwhetting should do a constant heal amount per hit and Inner Instinct should also have it really must've had a bad experience with a healer.

[Daralii]

Does this forum rewards aura points for saying crazy stuff like this?

It's not that outlandish. Dungeons are comfortably doable without a healer if people know what to do, and even extreme, savage, and ultimate fights have been cleared on-content without them in DT. Surprisingly, buffing the hell out of self-sustain via traits in EW and DT hurt the role's value.

[Kelg]

Does this forum rewards aura points for saying crazy stuff like this?

This is not crazy at all, a warrior or paladin can literally solo every dawntrail dungeon and they can heal party members as well.

[Kaurhz]

Generally speaking...

Sustain needs to be less across the board IMO..

I get the whole fact of you don't really want to balance around the lowest denominator content (normal dungeons and trials), but in the same vein balancing around that higher tier content really shouldn't come at the complete expense of turning the baseline content into utter garbage, which they've largely forsaken it. Especially when it doesn't actually require any serious skill to do so.

I wouldn't put this entirely on Warrior, granted, it is a shining example of the issue.

[Jeeqbit]

It's true and it was true in Endwalker as well. Paladins have had plenty of heals since Endwalker as part of their normal rotation and mitigation. And before Endwalker, they could actually keep themselves or others alive without a healer by spamming Clemency if absolutely needed.

Now what about Shadowbringers. At that time I was able to survive pretty confidently without a healer on a Dark Knight - yes, a DRK, the job that didn't have as many heals - with good use of Blackest Night, mit, Abyssal Drain, etc. I could also protect others, such as healers or rezzers, by placing Blackest Night on them and solo a boss with Blackest Night if needed. The biggest threat to Dark Knights was really leveling dungeons, where the self-heals on Warrior and Paladin are absolutely essential for survival without healers. But now, Dark Knight has a full heal as part of their invuln, a single target heal on Carve and Spit, and a heal on Shadowed Vigil.

In Shadowbringers I could solo some leveling dungeon bosses on Warrior and Dark Knight but it was rough. Due to all the scaling and battle system changes it's actually easier to solo some of them now.

You really have to go back to ARR, HW or Stormblood to see a balance that was good. Tanks had heals but they still relied on the healer. They could solo bosses, but had to be very skilled to do so (really good use of abilities, doing mechanics to avoid vulns, etc), whereas now the most clueless Warrior could do it provided they are capable of pressing Bloodwhetting regardless of vulns and mechanics. Paladins could survive a lot with Clemency (or in ARR, Stoneskin/Cure) but it was discouraged due to being at the expense of damage. Dark Knight had their Abyssal Drain spam but my memory of using that in leveling dungeons was I still wanted the healer around given the connection to MP and it potentially running out.

I can also say that, in Heavensward, if you were fighting an 8-person normal mode boss on a tank such as PLD, clemency was not enough to survive it without a healer. Their autos hurt so much. But the way the game is now, we had tanks able to solo through half of an extreme trial throughout Endwalker, and they were flat out soloing Endwalker normal raids. Which just wasn't a thing in an expansion like Heavensward (oh, and normal raids actually had enrages back then). If a tank tried to solo an extreme back then after the healers died, the tanks died in a few seconds to autos.