How are you liking Pilgrims Traverse?

[Esmoire]

Hey folks. I am a DD head who has multiple solo and party clears across all the DDs. It's my favourite form of PvE content, and more eager than I was to solo clear PT, it was to learn about it. I did my solo clear blind, running a PLD file where I was able to die as I pleased to see what the enemies did and what would be fatal, and a MCH file for just clearing it. This is an assessment I typed out for my community.

You know, if you can believe it, I think HOH is still the best solo DD. It has the best rooms, an aesthetic I like, and while the bosses are inferior, the dungeon itself feels like a challenge. PT has better reward structures, is prettier, a better story, more interesting pomanders, and is without a doubt the best DD for parties, but I would have liked it if regular enemies did a little more damage. I think we're grownups and if you are solo, you should have to kite. It's actually a big deal, because it puts mechanical tension on every interaction. Encounters where it's just about know what to do IMO are boring. It should require execution, and while HOH is easy to understand, you feel in mortal peril all the time. I don't like the double autos potentially oneshotting DPS, but maybe if they could up the enemy AA damage by 30% or so across all non-bosses (for EO as well), I'd like that.

I always say POTD is a lottery, HOH is an arcade, and EO is an exam, due to their different emphases. I don't know what I'd call PT, but so far, I lean towards saying it's just a good fucking game.

Solo Challenge
HOH > PT > EO > POTD

Party Challenge
EO > HOH >= PT > POTD

Approachability
PT >>>> HOH > POTD > EO

Aesthetic
PT > HOH > POTD > A bag of dog shite > EO

Story
POTD >= PT >> HOH > EO

Rewards
PT >>>>>>> HOH > POTD >= EO

Grading of the Deep Dungeons overall:
POTD: B-
HOH: B+
EO: D-
PT: A+

[0blivion]

I think blaming it on the server tick is a skill issue and a mechanical failure of understanding how snapshots work in this game

I thought that, too, but then it was multiple people at the exact same time, so there's evidence lmao. I have actually inted pretty hard because I tried moving early before, though, and that was my bad.

[Valence]

So what, you want everything telegraphed with big obvious orange aoes and dumbed down even more? This is already the easiest deep dungeon in the game by far because I'm almost done with my second solo from 1 to 100.

Unless you have a better idea? Yes the dev team has not been on a roll in some departments but you haven't really suggested what they should be doing in deep dungeons.

Plenty of people have suggested other approaches. Let's not pretend for a single moment that it's a binary choice between big obvious telegraphs or untelegraphed visual cues. There is even some mobs in PT, albeit an amount you can count on two fingers, that do actually do other things than DDR (poison dot, slow or heavy debuff). And that's not even touching on the matter of simple damage management that is literally void, as a lot of other people already pointed at rightfully so.

Make the combat system matter again. They do have a crazy amount of classic FF debuffs (slow, heavy, mini, etc), yet they do not use them, and do not give us opportunities nor agency to use our own in role actions (leg graze anyone?). DDs are the perfect place for this.

I've never cared about this but I also do deep dungeons regularly. This is a nonissue as much as people like to make it one. It's easier than it ever has been. People really can't be bothered to spend up to a couple of hours in potd (and then never have to do it again) in the YEARS between deep dungeon releases? They were never interested in the new one then.

Sure, but I'm frankly annoyed at people constantly deflecting the problem and dismissing it because "it's easy". It may very well be, but that's beyond the point. That requirement makes zero sense and is dumb.

[Supersnow845]

Another thing to consider; healers (though these days when was the last time square even considered healers)

In PT and EO healers are COMPLETELY useless because everything is either “I can pull 7 mobs with no mitigation and take 1/5 of my health as damage” or “AOE does 8* your hp bar”

SMN and RDM both have on demand rezzes and do a lot more damage (useful in the Troian floors which are chock full of gloom) and sleep as the same crowd control as healers with repose.

Like there is not a single unique use for a healer in the modern deep dungeon design other than “solo challenge challenge run” which is a damper on PT which in most other ways I do think is a legit improvement on the (very stale) formula

[Esmoire]

Another thing to consider; healers (though these days when was the last time square even considered healers)

In PT and EO healers are COMPLETELY useless because everything is either “I can pull 7 mobs with no mitigation and take 1/5 of my health as damage” or “AOE does 8* your hp bar”

SMN and RDM both have on demand rezzes and do a lot more damage (useful in the Troian floors which are chock full of gloom) and sleep as the same crowd control as healers with repose.

Like there is not a single unique use for a healer in the modern deep dungeon design other than “solo challenge challenge run” which is a damper on PT which in most other ways I do think is a legit improvement on the (very stale) formula

Aside from the absence of the need for a healer, in EO's case it really sabotages the resource management and planning that makes DD fun and unique. At least with PT, you can get opportunity cost off of steel. There's stuff from start to finish you can only live with steel, balm, or both. If you get HP bonus, or the enemy has gloom, you can play around that, too. EO, like you said, things kill you multiple times over, so steel, HP up, HP down, gloom, Unei's stoneskin, etc, is irrelevant. The only time steel really matters is bosses, and you'll have more than enough. You're in POTD or HOH, you get gloom in the upper floor, it's like shit, we need to play carefully. EO? I am just thinking about how much longer it's going to take. It should never be that your biggest challenge soloing a DD is your ability to stay awake.

Would absolutely take some of the HP out of enemies in EO, change most of the instant kills to either be barely survivable with AP or the right buffs, but then just ramp up the auto attack damage for everything except bosses. Let me feel the struggle for my life. Also it would make Unei and steels way more exciting to get.

PT has nicer resource management and kill times, but yeah, I'd like more auto attack damage here, too. 30%? 40%? I don't know, but I shouldn't be able to pull whole floors early on as a MCH with no AP or potions, and I also shouldn't still be able to take on multiple enemies at the later floors without at least good kiting or resource usage.

[Raikai]

more interesting pomanders

Even in the current system paradigm this was a bit of a let-down for me. There's just 3-4 unique Pomanders, I wish they changed more of them. Maybe leaving just Safety, Sight, Strength, Steel, Purity, Serenity, Raising, Fortune and Intuition*. I feel all the others could be brand new effects.

* Although I'd also appreciate if they could get rid of Intuition and made a brand new way of obtaining random treasure sacks.

[Esmoire]

Even in the current system paradigm this was a bit of a let-down for me. There's just 3-4 unique Pomanders, I wish they changed more of them. Maybe leaving just Safety, Sight, Strength, Steel, Purity, Serenity, Raising, Fortune and Intuition*. I feel all the others could be brand new effects.

* Although I'd also appreciate if they could get rid of Intuition and made a brand new way of obtaining random treasure sacks.

The big thing I meant when I said that is HOH IMO has too many floor clears, and it can be unhealthy. I like the idea of magicite existing as catch against bad rolls on no item floors. That said, I don't think it needed petrification on-top of it. I think something like Frailty where you still have to fight the enemies is more interesting.

PT, in comparison, has one true floor clear and two soft floor clears competing with the same resource pool, with Feo Ul's transformation spell and damage all but ensuring victory even if it doesn't kill outright. Granted, I have steamrolled the last set with good rolls on candelabras on devotion, though that's not a guarantee.

[Mesarthim]

Sure, but I'm frankly annoyed at people constantly deflecting the problem and dismissing it because "it's easy". It may very well be, but that's beyond the point. That requirement makes zero sense and is dumb.

And I can sympathize that it is indeed dumb. However if they aren't going to remove that requirement after 6+ years I don't see our stale-unable-to-innovate corporation changing this fact. The sooner people pull their head out of the sand and just bite the bullet they will NEVER have to do potd again. I'm not being mean to these people I am being realistic. Even I have my own gripes despite being a DD soloer (PT has been trivial to me once learned, 2+ solos within a week with time invested?).

Or else what? Are people going to yet again whine in 2 years that they have to do potd once another DD rolls around (likely with little innovation?). Square is nearly creatively bankrupt in this game you know.

Edit: Hell if people ask me I can bring 3 deadweights on a field trip with them doing absolutely nothing and suddenly potd ceases to be the bane of their existence.

[Themarvin]

Its fine, the 40-50 first floors is moderate as in not to difficult to survirve... then it changes to lethal mode as it should, that it is not enforced to be fixed group to go towards the top is a nice change as well.

Deep Dungeons is superior to Savage/Ultimates and Extremes, etc.

For one reason, each run is different and only the bosses remain the same.

[Stormfur]

I miss the big open floors from HoH where you could just primal nuke everything after popping a fortune and restock your pomanders.