"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[TBerry]

I play in EU as well, mind you. If there's so much votekick going around in your parties, my guess is that you're probably the one initiating them and if that's the case, I'm sorry but it's definitely not the norm and that would just be you being toxic.

I never votekicked anyone except for DC.

[Yeonhee]

I never votekicked anyone except for DC.

Then you're overexaggarating how often it happens. Never saw any DPS in Chaos being kicked for pulling. Jesus, even people who AFK without a word don't always get kicked.

[Grimforth]

I swear the people here that are still arguing and bickering like this are such children.

Plenty of room to grow up and yet they choose not to.

But I'd be lying if I said that wasn't getting a kick out of this.

[Jeycht]

I actually got votekick by a couple months ago. I was a healer, not dps. Running ahead but not pulling, I was waiting. Then sudden kick.
When I asked why the answer was "my gf (the tank) got anxious because you pulled every pack before her". Like, what? I was standing there before every packs and never got aggro even once.

So yeah, that can happen, it's rare but it happen.

What happen more is tank refusing to tank if anyone pull before them even if you grab aggro from afar and nicely pack them on the tank.
They stance off, and start walking. I have report and kick more of them than I have fingers to count them and I only do my daily expert until half patch (like 7.1 to 7.15 for exemple) so it's not like I'm actively looking for them.

[TBerry]

IDK my experience ever since I started is that people wait for the tank before the next pull and small pulls are no big deal, and are comfortable whit whatever pace is set. But please tell me more about my dungeon experience.

Why am I in such a rush again?

[Frizze]

Im gonna ignore the last 4(ugh) pages.

In hindsight I should have clarified that this really only happens when the tank eats the floor or DCs. If it's just a regular pull, then they never really run away. (From my experience) It's very easy to heal a DPS trying to kill mobs, unless they run away.

Emphasis mine. So... thats the thread right? No more reason to keep arguing? Its very easy. So YPYT* has no actual justification.

And on the off chance this leads to me being accused of things, ill lay out how i play real quick. I use BLM in any group content i care about unless theres a reason to do otherwise. This is what im most comfortable with. I do often play during off hours, so ive done my share of trust runs. I always pull ahead of Thancred, and we never have a problem. When im doing a run during normal hours and que up, i dont pull ahead. I dont even sprint to keep up. I run at normal speed so that the tank has time to group everything up for my big booms and so that they actually have stopped moving when i start attacking(when everything you do has a cast bar you think of these things). All my adventures in BLM tanking dungeons are during trouble(disconnects, the tank eating it, the odd alliance raid where the MT dies and neither off tank is ready to assume control). So no, im not someone causing problems for tanks. I just recognize that the behavior is wrong.

*Just because at a few points it has felt like 2 different arguments were happening concurrently, my definition of YPYT is the tank intentionally ceasing to participate normally in an attempt to kill the DPS/healer who offended them. If you pull agro of course you take a few hits before order is established. No one who pulls agro considers this anything but normal. You can tell the difference between that, and a tank trying to MPK someone.

[gansita]

To be honest, I used to be of that mentality but not anymore and mostly for these reasons:

- I assume that the player running ahead of me to pull enemies doesn't have any legitimate reason to do this other than trolling and the honest desire to disrupt other people's experience. Maybe they're having a bad day, maybe they're the type of person that engage in self-sabotaging behaviours, I don't really care.

- Asking them to stop or turning off tank stance to let them die doesn't resolve the issue at all. Not only you're ruining your own experience but also it antagonizes you against your fellow party members, especially if the one pulling ahead is a DPS but then the healer or the other DPS end up dying because you turned off your tank stance. At that point, any type of explanation won't matter, fingers will be pointed at you, which brings me to my next point.

- Some players do this for the sole reason of trying to "fish" for reports, that is, engaging in disruptive behaviour to incite an equivalent or worse response from you in order to build enough evidence to file a report against you. This is why you never, ever, drop down to their level.

The correct way to deal with these type of players is to continue with the duty as normal, as if nothing happened. Keep tank stance on, if they run forward to pull more, follow them and try your best to take emnity away from them and, in general, keep pushing for excelence to the best of your ability. Let their poor behaviour stand out and shine on its own. Let them jump and roll on the mud alone, look at them from a distance, cringe, and then maybe not only you but the rest of the party will report them at the end.

If you're like me and it's hard for you to keep quiet on these situations, you can always ask them politely to stop, a message like "I would appreciate if you let me handle the pulls. Thank you." should be enough and I advice against starting arguments with said players. No more communication after that and you continue playing normally as usual. If they ignore your request, it could be understood that they're doing it on purpose and at that point, the actual punishment for said poor behaviour should come from a GM since their behaviour goes against the "Lack of Consideration for Others" rule, a direct violation of the ToS.

Finally, though the FF14 community in general has rules and it is good that new players are informed of them, it is not our job as players to force other players to comply if they refuse to follow these guidelines, that is the job of the GMs, which is why my general rule is to ignore their behaviour, report them at the end and let a GM handle the situation since they're the ones who have the power to both warn and punish players for ToS violations.

[Supersnow845]

Again the “lack of consideration of others” rule doesn’t work in a situation that can just be flipped around

If the DPS in question wants to pull faster then if you as the tank want to pull slower and expect everyone else to go along with your slower pull then are you by default not considering the DPS

I need someone to explain this on a way that doesn’t lean on weird expectations of etiquette or personal belief in the order of the dungeon. If you want to go slow and the DPS wants to go fast then by default someone isn’t going to get their way. By the letter of the “lack of consideration for others” part of the TOS the person who doesn’t get their way in this situation has grounds to report the other. So who ends up in the right there

You can’t unilaterally apply the TOS to one half of the equation just because you think one side is personally more “justified”

[RenkoBernkastel]

snip

Aren't you getting tired of arguing with people who don't even respond to your points? You're not going to get an explanation from these people. You asked for one multiple times and every time you get hit with another strawman.

[AmiableApkallu]

Tank: I'm the puller. I decide the pace.

DPS x2: Nah, you're too slow. We zoom!

Healer: I'm still here? I'm still relevant (wishful thinking, I know)? Thanks for asking?