"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[BokoToloko]

I'm from EU, I've been doing roulettes since HW and I've had yet to see anyone kick DPS who pulled ahead. Hell, the only reason that solidly gets someone kicked is being afk/offline. I've never faced a dismiss over pulling ahead of a tank and I've done this plenty of times in recent years, specially as a healer. And when I tank? I just... don't care when I can get aggro back and I know the DPS can survive for enough time before I grab the aggro back. I used to think pulling ahead of tank was rude, and then realized it was, in the end, of no consequence.

It's not an NA thing. And if my word alone isn't enough for you, there is plenty of EU veterans in this whole thread that also think YPYT is just tank ego and that DPS pulling ahead is no big deal. It's a headscratcher how you're trying to turn a molehill out of a sand grain when most people running dungeons just... don't care. There is no much story to a DPS pulling ahead other than them pulling ahead. And if you asked most of them, the answer you would get is that they're used to the rythm of W2W, nothing more and nothing less.

You can harp on about YPYT (it IS reportable), but we all know it's not about that. The thread has never been. You want to use it as a leverage to coerce and punish people.
And you try to justify because it's not a mechanic, because clearly you don't understand the meaning of "community"."

Even if the thread comes from a Titanmen alt, it still adresess the opposite: how some tanks use arbitrary etiquette code they've come up with to coerce and punish DPS who don't fall in with their program, which is the whole thing of YPYT (the game is not so complex or new as to not be already optimized by their players). Trying to move the goalpost in order to turn the discussion about some attempt of a psychological study on those who complain about YPYT won't really change that.

And the fun part is that the most cases of YPYT I've seen don't come from EU, but from NA. I would wager Supersnow845 has a much clearer picture on how narcissistic players can be than you think.

[Supersnow845]

And there it is. Your ulterior motive and the root of your problem with tanks.
Because you are not the sole lifesaver and star of the party.

You can harp on about YPYT (it IS reportable), but we all know it's not about that. The thread has never been. You want to use it as a leverage to coerce and punish people. And OP probably pushed their luck and got kicked.
And you try to justify because it's not a mechanic, because clearly you don't understand the meaning of "community".

And people wonder why NA is so toxic and no one actually wants to play with others.

It kind of reminds me of the the "arguments" griefers use in PvP MMOs when they zerg and spawncamp noobs.
"The game doesn't prevent it, so I can do it."

So explain to me, very easily, and very clearly from a neutral foundation why maintaining etiquette built on the foundation of a trinity which now exists in name only is good and should be followed for immersion reasons but other elements of said trinity that is being followed for immersion reasons aren’t relevant

Because id really like to know why anyone should follow the tank because of the ghost of the old trinity but other elements of the old trinity should just be ignored because it’s convenient for you. Either you follow the spirit of the ghost of the trinity or your whole etiquette system collapses because there is no argument where you can both say the DPS should follow the tank because in the old trinity the tank needed to pull first but also say the tank should be able to heal on behalf of the healer when in the old system the tank relied on the healing of the healer

It’s like a textbook case of having your cake and eating it too

[Crafoutis]

It's solely down to ego, 100%

[TBerry]

So explain to me, very easily, and very clearly from a neutral foundation why maintaining etiquette built on the foundation of a trinity which now exists in name only is good and should be followed for immersion reasons but other elements of said trinity that is being followed for immersion reasons aren’t relevant

Because id really like to know why anyone should follow the tank because of the ghost of the old trinity but other elements of the old trinity should just be ignored because it’s convenient for you. Either you follow the spirit of the ghost of the trinity or your whole etiquette system collapses because there is no argument where you can both say the DPS should follow the tank because in the old trinity the tank needed to pull first but also say the tank should be able to heal on behalf of the healer when in the old system the tank relied on the healing of the healer

It’s like a textbook case of having your cake and eating it too

So I should just run ahead and abuse my range because you say so. But when I get punished it's 100& the tank's fault and not mine because I want to abuse my range.
I don't know that sounds pretty egoistic.

[BokoToloko]

So I should just run ahead and abuse my range because you say so. But when I get punished it's 100& the tank's fault and not mine because I want to abuse my range.
I don't know that sounds pretty egoistic.

If the tank is the one deciding to punish the DPS for pulling ahead them, yes. Because they could've just easily gone to their side and draw the aggro towards them yet they did not and because, in all likeliness, the other DPS and the healer will also pay for the tank's inaction because they'll likely still do their jobs of dpsing mobs and keeping the party alive. And it's not hard to tell when it's intentional. It's really not.

And the amount of people who carry the mobs miles aways from tank instead of bringing them into their AoE are a minority within a minority. That's not a reference population of players, that's pretty much the outlier that most players will hardly find (if ever).

[Yeonhee]

So I should just run ahead and abuse my range because you say so. But when I get punished it's 100& the tank's fault and not mine because I want to abuse my range.
I don't know that sounds pretty egoistic.

Seeing you talking about being egoistic is kinda funny considering your whole argument revolves around "Follow my outdated made-up etiquette or I'll let you die out of petty revenge".

I'm from EU, I've been doing roulettes since HW and I've had yet to see anyone kick DPS who pulled ahead. Hell, the only reason that solidly gets someone kicked is being afk/offline. I've never faced a dismiss over pulling ahead of a tank and I've done this plenty of times in recent years, specially as a healer. And when I tank? I just... don't care when I can get aggro back and I know the DPS can survive for enough time before I grab the aggro back. I used to think pulling ahead of tank was rude, and then realized it was, in the end, of no consequence.

It's not an NA thing. And if my word alone isn't enough for you, there is plenty of EU veterans in this whole thread that also think YPYT is just tank ego and that DPS pulling ahead is no big deal. It's a headscratcher how you're trying to turn a molehill out of a sand grain when most people running dungeons just... don't care. There is no much story to a DPS pulling ahead other than them pulling ahead. And if you asked most of them, the answer you would get is that they're used to the rythm of W2W, nothing more and nothing less.



Even if the thread comes from a Titanmen alt, it still adresess the opposite: how some tanks use arbitrary etiquette code they've come up with to coerce and punish DPS who don't fall in with their program, which is the whole thing of YPYT (the game is not so complex or new as to not be already optimized by their players). Trying to move the goalpost in order to turn the discussion about some attempt of a psychological study on those who complain about YPYT won't really change that.

And the fun part is that the most cases of YPYT I've seen don't come from EU, but from NA. I would wager Supersnow845 has a much clearer picture on how narcissistic players can be than you think.

100% that.

[TBerry]

Yeah no pretty sure the tank will not let me die, but I will still be kicked.
Because it's considered rude to not wait for others.
I'd rather have a shitty run than having to wait 30 minutes because I chose to be a nuisance to others.

[Atreus]

There's 147 pages of this hot garbage topic?

Just grab the mobs. It doesn't matter who pulls them and it isn't that deep. I'm so sorry to anyone who has to deal with tank players who are that deluded.

[BokoToloko]

Yeah no pretty sure the tank will not let me die, but I will still be kicked.
Because it's considered ruse to not wait for others.
I'd rather have a shitty run than having to wait 30 minutes because I chose to be a nuisanvce to others.

I've made tank sweat by forcing them to take bigger pulls while I was a healer in order to dispel their unfounded tanxiety and I've never, EVER, been dismissed for it. Hell, I've pulled ahead as a DPS after trying to explain time and again that they definitely can take bigger pulls (not hard to tell if the tank is never dropping below 80% hp with their pace). And I still didn't get dismiss.

It takes either being AFK/Online or being massively disruptive to the party for a Dismiss vote to be successful. And pulling ahead of the tank has seldom (if ever) made the cut in EU. And works both ways too: plenty of YPYT tanks and Cure1 only healers who don't get the boot because "let's just get this dungeon done".

There's 147 pages of this hot garbage topic?

Just grab the mobs. It doesn't matter who pulls them and it isn't that deep. I'm so sorry to anyone who has to deal with tank players who are that deluded.

Even when we try to let it die, titanmen will resuscitate the thread time and again. Until the time comes that a moderator closes this thread for good, it's here to stay, sadly.

[Yeonhee]

I've made tank sweat by forcing them to take bigger pulls while I was a healer in order to dispel their unfounded tanxiety and I've never, EVER, been dismissed for it. Hell, I've pulled ahead as a DPS after trying to explain time and again that they definitely can take bigger pulls (not hard to tell if the tank is never dropping below 80% hp with their pace). And I still didn't get dismiss.

It takes either being AFK/Online or being massively disruptive to the party for a Dismiss vote to be successful. And pulling ahead of the tank has seldom (if ever) made the cut in EU. And works both ways too: plenty of YPYT tanks and Cure1 only healers who don't get the boot because "let's just get this dungeon done".

My GF has a pretty big habit of running ahead of the tanks and pulling as a healer/dps and never got any votekick initiated against her lol

Yeah no pretty sure the tank will not let me die, but I will still be kicked.
Because it's considered ruse to not wait for others.
I'd rather have a shitty run than having to wait 30 minutes because I chose to be a nuisanvce to others.

I play in EU as well, mind you. If there's so much votekick going around in your parties, my guess is that you're probably the one initiating them and if that's the case, I'm sorry but it's definitely not the norm and that would just be you being toxic.