"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

[TBerry]

So this is a circumstance where the Americans are right and everyone else is wrong, correct?

Yes. Please look forward to Supesnow telling you about all your duty experiences.

So in your mind “team gameplay” is “play how I want or I’ll let you die”?

Very much team gameplay

Tank setting the pace is etiquette and a silent agreement among the team. Thank you for proving my point.If you can't follow etiquette, why should the tank? All I read is "rule for thee but not for me".
Also hypocrisy because that's exactly what you try to argue all the time.

[Supersnow845]

Tank setting the pace is a agreement among the team. Thank you for proving my point.

See this is just such a perfect representation of the pointless circular logic that defines YPYT

“Let’s say the tank sets the pace and everyone agrees on it, then it’s wrong for the others to not obey the pace. Why does the tank set the pace? Because the tank sets the pace”

Like sure if everyone is fine with the tank setting the pace then go ahead, but if people disagree on the pace then the tank isn’t right by default and allowing people to die because you disagree with another’s desired pace is just the most childish way to solve it while also pretending to be “for the party”

And as for your edit who determines said etiquette, there isn’t rules for who pulls. You are basically saying “let’s assume the rules exist (they don’t), why are you breaking them?”

[TBerry]

See this is just such a perfect representation of the pointless circular logic that defines YPYT

“Let’s say the tank sets the pace and everyone agrees on it, then it’s wrong for the others to not obey the pace. Why does the tank set the pace? Because the tank sets the pace”

Like sure if everyone is fine with the tank setting the pace then go ahead, but if people disagree on the pace then the tank isn’t right by default and allowing people to die because you disagree with another’s desired pace is just the most childish way to solve it while also pretending to be “for the party”

And as for your edit who determines said etiquette, there isn’t rules for who pulls. You are basically saying “let’s assume the rules exist (they don’t), why are you breaking them?”

Let me just clarify here that actual YPYT happens rarely, but petty punishment can happen. If the DPS is a prick, why should only the tank be punished for being petty?
Why is the DPS right for just deliberately disrupting the game for the rest of the team?

Etiquette is good behavior, a norm among players to get along and make the game easier for everyone. Just because you cannot understand it doesn't make it obsolete.

[Supersnow845]

Let me just clarify here that actual YPYT happens rarely, but petty punishment can happen. If the DPS is a prick, why shoould only the tank be punished for being petty?
Why is the DPS right for just deliberately disrupting the game for the rest of the team?

Etiquette is good behavior, a norm among players. Just because you cannot understand it doesn't make it obsolete.

That’s my point. You are starting off a flawed base. You are beginning with the assumption that anyone besides the tank pulling is automatically disobeying some sense of “etiquette” despite having no functional reason why that exists. Tanks haven’t had necessity of being pullers in so long the vast majority of players playing this game never experienced the game when it was like that. If you want to justify being petty on the game equivalent of meaningless tradition then sure I guess but it’s not exactly a powerful argument. About as meaningful as JP losing their minds when A tank pulls in an alliance raid

So in a world where anyone can pull with no downsides (and in the case of effective use of things like arms length or toxicon can actually generate advantage) the so called “etiquette” is just outdated tendencies to do things the same way for no real benefit which then leads to the question of why are you being petty against a DPS who from a gameplay perspective isn’t doing anything wrong. I’m not even saying a DPS is in the “right” for pulling, I’m saying letting someone die for something that doesn’t lead to downsides unless you let it puts you in the wrong.

[TBerry]

That’s my point. You are starting off a flawed base. You are beginning with the assumption that anyone besides the tank pulling is automatically disobeying some sense of “etiquette” despite having no functional reason why that exists. Tanks haven’t had necessity of being pullers in so long the vast majority of players playing this game never experienced the game when it was like that

So in a world where anyone can pull with no downsides (and in the case of effective use of things like arms length or toxicon can actually generate advantage) the so called “etiquette” is just outdated tendencies to do things the same way for no real benefit which then leads to the question of why are you being petty against a DPS who from a gameplay perspective isn’t doing anything wrong. I’m not even saying a DPS is in the “right” for pulling, I’m saying letting someone die for something that doesn’t lead to downsides unless you let it puts you in the wrong.

Maybe ettiquette on NA is "GOTTA GO FAST", but that doesn't make it universal for the game. Just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you are automatically in the right to do it.
I think you're just looking for reasons to be angry at tanks, probably because you're miserable as a healer.

[EDIT]
Also I need a source for that JP Ally Raid claim. Anyone from JP here?

[Supersnow845]

Maybe ettiquette on NA is "GOTTA GO FAST", but that doesn't make it universal for the game. Just because you CAN do it, doesn't mean you are automatically in the right to do it.
I think you're just looking for reasons to be angry at tanks, probably because you're miserable as a healer.

Which as I said a person pulling isn’t automatically in the right for pulling, a person deciding to be petty against them for little more than a slight against their own perceived sense of etiquette is in the wrong. You forfeit any claim to being in the right when you can’t even articulate what the other person did wrong other than just saying that it offends a collective sense of etiquette (that isn’t very collective anyway). Pulling as another player in the modern game has functionally zero downsides and a host of upsides, if you’d rather cling to weird traditional etiquette I’d ask why you aren’t playing all your classes like their HW incarnation considering that was the last time pulling as a DPS generated significant downsides

My annoyance at tank strength has nothing to do with YPYT, it’s just hilarious to me that in the last 6 pages the best justification for YPYT has been “tradition”, “AI slop” and “well if BOTH EU and JP do MPK it must be okay”

[TBerry]

Which as I said a person pulling isn’t automatically in the right for pulling, a person deciding to be petty against them for little more than a slight against their own perceived sense of etiquette is in the wrong. You forfeit any claim to being in the right when you can’t even articulate what the other person did wrong other than just saying that it offends a collective sense of etiquette (that isn’t very collective anyway). Pulling as another player in the modern game has functionally zero downsides and a host of upsides, if you’d rather cling to weird traditional etiquette I’d ask why you aren’t playing all your classes like their HW incarnation considering that was the last time pulling as a DPS generated significant downsides

My annoyance at tank strength has nothing to do with YPYT, it’s just hilarious to me that in the last 6 pages the best justification for YPYT has been “tradition”, “AI slop” and “well if BOTH EU and JP do MPK it must be okay”

I never said anything about justifying YPYT I said on EU players just adhere to the tank pulling because it's agreed upon and the most peaceful solution of teamplay and, I don't know if you heqard about it, but being social, and not being an egomanic for trying to justify antisocial behaviour.