"We're people too." To the producer and Dev team of this MMORPG

[Dan4077]

Using the general "you" here.

Getting disillusioned, tired, hopeless, giving up?
Can't blame you.

Responding with toxic comments, death threats, calls for devs to be fired, insults, slurs, setting the house on fire on your way out?
Can blame you.

I don't like the sentiment of saying the devs made you become this way and say those things, therefore you're not responsible or it's ok. No. People are responsible for their words and actions.

There are times in life where responding to a bad situation with unsaintly behavior is easily overlooked or forgiven. "They made a videogame I don't like" is not one of those times.

Now, for those people like you who say you just don't care anymore and toxicity is all you have, how do you expect people still in the community to respond while you bring everyone down and poison the well? If your attitude to that is "don't care, not my problem, I've no empathy for anyone else here", why should anyone care about how justified you think your poison is?

Lol, use the .01% of insane comments to blanket all toxicity sounds about right for an xiv defender. First off we can call for people to get fired all we want. Everyone knows most of us are not shielded from getting fired when we do a shit job, you new to the way the world works? Why exactly do the xiv devs get cuddling when the product has become sub par and the story is mid as hell upon other things?

What exactly is your suggestion to the "toxic people", "guys just keep putting in your feedback and as soon as square loses enough players they will finally add one or two things from the list!" lol. 766 posts in a year, how many are defending this company from all the bad toxic people. and yes this is one of those times we are allowed to be negative. Who exactly gave you the power to determine when and when it isn't allowed?

Also I never asked for your or others approval on being justified in any of my comments for my "toxicity" nor do I want it. Fact is people played nice for long time, they are tired of it and if you do not have some sort of suggestion beyond cuddling square and it's employees then guess we are at a cross road.

[bic12]

and yes this is one of those times we are allowed to be negative? Who exactly gave you the power to determine when and when it isn't allowed?

It's like trying to be toxic to a rock bro. It's just gonna sit there.

SE ain't gonna ever improve. They're not the company they once were.

There's only one solution and it's to walk away from the rock. Just realize that your years in FF14 doesn't mean anything and remember the sunk cost fallacy.

The forums also recently had a huge change in policy and started aggressively banning people for being overly negative by the way. You're just wasting your time.

Instead help yourself and your friends break free. Move to greener pastures. Forget about this garbage heap.

[Dan4077]

I'm in a Japanese speaking CWLS on Chaos that specifically has a rule against excessive doomposting (accent on excessive), and it will result in a warning first and kick if the behavior is not stopped. The sentiment around that rule is
Personally, if a friend of mine in any project reaches a point where the game only invokes negative emotions in them, I will suggest they take a break or leave entirely. I've left plenty of games in similar fashion myself. Because I'm here to rest and enjoy my evening. If I don't anymore - I pull the plug. And I wouldn't even say the games I stopped playing became bad per se - they just decided to move in a direction that doesn't include my preferences as a target audience.


You either keep being persistent with your feedback (sometimes for years, unfortunately), make peace with it not becoming a thing and go with the flow, or reach the point where it's not fun anymore and leave.

See, that is nice and all but we are not in a CWLS in FFXIV right now, we are in the forums that are dedicated to feedback and such. The post we are commenting on is one of such topic. Also assumption that I am always negative because of xiv or while playing would be wrong. I am purely laying out WHY it has become so negative and toxic in this community. The assumption it is burnout would also be wrong, I have took breaks when I got burnt out.

The way it is with a community is there is a certain point where stuff escalates because of the way things are, and you are also assuming again that they just "can't" implement better class design that they themselves ripped away? or it is somehow impossible to fix housing? This is all just impossible for the multi BILLION dollar company, give me a break. Not all toxicity is sending devs death threats and stuff of that extreme. If everyone did what you suggest games would never be course corrected. Under your logic, if you are unhappy in anyway, just quit, got it.

Also your comment would only really work for me or others if this was just consuming our life, and for me personally it isn't. Just throwing some comments here and there, I been on and off around 11 years now and I have under 100 comments. I would also like to point out, just because people are using some time to show their dissatisfaction doesn't mean they are even actively playing, they might still be subbed, but not touching the game. (That is what I am doing anyway, I am enjoying silksong.) I haven't been on in 2 months or so.

Things only change because people are either willing to give time to say it and why, or unsub. I have given my constructive criticism. If the game comes to a point of no return for me, it really doesn't bother me much in the end, but I rather have a good game again. So I am willing to put in at least this much effort for now, the day I no longer care will be a sad day since I been here awhile.

[Exmo]

...

I'm not reading all that, I got the gist from the first few sentences and honestly, I know when someone's a waste of time. Have some cop on, find some real problems, touch grass.

[Dan4077]

It's like trying to be toxic to a rock bro. It's just gonna sit there.

SE ain't gonna ever improve. They're not the company they once were.

There's only one solution and it's to walk away from the rock. Just realize that your years in FF14 doesn't mean anything and remember the sunk cost fallacy.

The forums also recently had a huge change in policy and started aggressively banning people for being overly negative by the way. You're just wasting your time.

Instead help yourself and your friends break free. Move to greener pastures. Forget about this garbage heap.

Well, not too worried about my stuff, I had fun on the way. Right now my entire attitude is, if they do it they do it. I am catching up on games, playing silksong then expedition 33 after. Lot of stuff to do. I think some have misunderstood my comments to be that I am actively spending my day criticizing or being toxic towards xiv. I really ain't, just the odd post here and there is all. XD

[ElysiumDragon]

I know the devs probably won't read this, but I'll say it here anyway:

Please look to the Hoyoverse games (not Genshin though) on how they handle feedback, with surveys every few weeks, and just shutter the forums at this point. You're not getting good feedback because of the means by which feedback is being received, as it's encouraging junk 'feedback', instead of clear, discernible information you can act upon.

"Make jobs better" isn't feedback, no matter how much people try and dress it up like it is.

[Dan4077]

I'm not reading all that, I got the gist from the first few sentences and honestly, I know when someone's a waste of time. Have some cop on, find some real problems, touch grass.

Wow, that is sooooooo toxic! Remember, toxicity is bad, did you make sure to give yourself a pass to be toxic before posting that! Person that hast 767 comments in under a year and, spends all day reading/replying on forums doesn't want to read all a sudden, XIV defender go rEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

[Dan4077]

I know the devs probably won't read this, but I'll say it here anyway:

Please look to the Hoyoverse games (not Genshin though) on how they handle feedback, with surveys every few weeks, and just shutter the forums at this point. You're not getting good feedback because of the means by which feedback is being received, as it's encouraging junk 'feedback', instead of clear, discernible information you can act upon.

"Make jobs better" isn't feedback, no matter how much people try and dress it up like it is.

I mean, haven't there already been like 2000 posts about that already? They even said they are going to work on it in 8.0, No reason to keep posting the entire 3k essay on the what like 22 classes, c'mon. They have all the feedback. So people like me at least are just waiting. I was just using it as an example, not typing out everything every time I mention it.

[Halivel]

Under your logic, if you are unhappy in anyway, just quit, got it.

Reread my post, because that's not what I said at all.

What I said is that there's always an odd chance that what (a collective) you want goes against what developers want for the project. And in that case there's not much any of us can do about it. In FF14's case it particularly concerns housing - they can, technically, implement a different system. But the thing is - they don't want to, and there's nothing to suggest that they wavered in their stance on that in 10 years, so far. Doesn't mean it can't change one miraculous day, but with how much time has passed... I feel like we've reached the point where it's safe to say that housing most likely ain't changing pretty much ever.

Someone else mentioned Hoyoverse and the way they handle feedback, and the only thing I can say is that it won't help either. Hoyo, much like anyone else, are also experts at ignoring feedback that goes against what they want to see in their projects (all while making way more money than SE will ever even dream of). That particularly concerns their F to M characters ratio, and is something the community has been very vocal about for 5 years in all their projects. And there's nothing to suggest that they're wavering on that aspect of their game design, because that's simply the path they chose.

"It's a product we pay for" - yes, but at the end of the day we're not the ones creating it, and as such any final decisions aren't ours to make. If developer is stubborn about some aspect of their game design, as a player and customer the only thing we can do is either keep pestering them while also understanding that it can be for nothing, or vote with the wallet and leave.

[dotsforlife]

Using the general "you" here.
Responding with toxic comments, death threats, calls for devs to be fired, insults, slurs, setting the house on fire on your way out?
Can blame you.

I'm not reading all that, I got the gist from the first few sentences and honestly, I know when someone's a waste of time. Have some cop on, find some real problems, touch grass.

Fascinating