Revelations from Patch 7.3: The Promise of Tomorrow

[Dikatis]

Just to vent...

So many plot holes and contradicting lore left and right... How am I supposed to enjoy a story like this ? I read fanfics that were more consistent...

So uh... do you have something to contribute to the conversation or are you just going to ragebait without context?

[Cleretic]

Yeah, without specifics that just seems like ragebait. Hell, I didn't smell a whiff of plotholes or 'contradicting lore', unless we count the thing mentioned recently that it's a little weird Calyx could transmit his signal without the Everkeep's portal; even that's pretty easily resolved, it's just that the reason wasn't said.

If you want to be mad, that's fine, but be more specific so that we can join you in being mad instead of just thinking you're an incendiary drive-by poster. Plus, in my experience, writing an angry screed is way more of a cathartic vent than a single vague line; that poster didn't vent anything, I can't imagine they feel any better!

[Calysto]

I know I'm forgetting some (gtg soon)

Shale backstory made no sense under regulators, Spene affecting tempered people plot device and the terminals reactivation (after bowing part of the mesoterminal no less).

Also the final part of the Calyx fight CS made no sense as a ranged DPS (and the parry was awkward as well)

[Rosenstrauch]

unless we count the thing mentioned recently that it's a little weird Calyx could transmit his signal without the Everkeep's portal; even that's pretty easily resolved, it's just that the reason wasn't said.

I imagine the Living Memory portal serves the same purpose re: sending signals from the Meso Terminal to Everkeep. The strength of his wireless connection must really be something else, though.

[Dikatis]

I know I'm forgetting some (gtg soon)

Shale backstory made no sense under regulators, Spene affecting tempered people plot device and the terminals reactivation (after bowing part of the mesoterminal no less).

Also the final part of the Calyx fight CS made no sense as a ranged DPS (and the parry was awkward as well)

1) Regarding Shale's backstory, even if you can't remember exactly who the person you forgot was, strong connections can still leave a lingering emotional pain. We see this at numerous points in the story and in sidequests, such as in the Cornservant quests where an Eldite woman continues to feel depressed after losing someone close to her despite not being able to remember them. The Cornservant's gift of food helps her recall that she used to eat Turali food like tacos with her departed loved one and that she deeply cared about this person. Not a plot hole.

2) Sphene's words affecting the tempered is hardly a plot hole. Sufficiently strong emotional jolts have been shown to affect tempered people and people suffering similar effects. We see this with Halric and how he grieves Tesleen after she's killed despite being barely able to think due to his body being overaspected to Light. Ga Bu is tempered by Titan upon summoning him but still responds to external stimulus such as his friendship with Alisaie. We see this even more dramatically at Paglth'an, when Tiamat's roar as one of the First Brood shocks several wyverns out of the Telophoroi's control and summons them to carry the Scions into battle. Sphene is the mirror image of the ruler of Alexandria for the past 300 or so years and universally beloved for her compassion during this time. The idea that the living Sphene's voice and compassion could touch the hearts of the tempered people who loved the Endless Sphene isn't a plot hole at all and emphasizes the importance of connections while underscoring how Calyx mistakenly believed that other people all fear death as much as him.

3) Parrying the blow in the cutscene is hardly weird when you realize you can tank Susano's sword as any job.

[Carin-Eri]

3) Parrying the blow in the cutscene is hardly weird when you realize you can tank Susano's sword as any job.

A little off-topic, I know - but despite having played the game for approximately four years now.... I was unaware of this.

Every single time I've played it the Tanks always deal with Susano's sword and I always took it for granted that it was a Tank's job to parry his sword.

[Dikatis]

A little off-topic, I know - but despite having played the game for approximately four years now.... I was unaware of this.

Every single time I've played it the Tanks always deal with Susano's sword and I always took it for granted that it was a Tank's job to parry his sword.

Yeah. It's not something you really think about doing and the tanks are the best at it for obvious reasons, but you CAN do it regardless of job. I always try to let the sprouts take it for the first time so they can see it happen fresh.

[Vyrerus]

Used to enjoy shielding self on SCH and tanking the sword with SCH's book. The rub in doing it on non-tank is you take damage every tic you're holding it off, and if your HP 0s, then you lose the button mashing regardless, and everybody dies. In extreme it inflicts a debuff that prevents the same person from blocking it twice.

As for the Sphene being able to break tempering with a vocal broadcast... The examples listed by Dikatis are all bad, actually, and don't excuse the Sphene scene. Sorry, not sorry.

1) Ga Bu's summoning was already a mess, unintentional and emotional due to seeing his parents dead. The version of Titan he summons is wrought with that same grief and even attempts to kill him, and he's just a child, too. It's hard to know, then, how bad his tempering was, and how much of his mental break and non-responsiveness is from trauma rather than tempering. i.e. It's not tempering in the usual sense, anyway.

2) Halric isn't tempered at all. He's poisoned by light. While similar, it's not the same thing. He has no entity controlling his mind.

3) Dragons have been established by Endwalker to have scales resistant to tempering, so it's not unbelievable that dragons would be able to be brought out of their enthrallment by a Grand Wyrm(or at least more easily by anything), particularly considering the dragons have a tempering like power themselves, as showcased in the DRG Stormblood job quests with the dragon that fled to the Far East to avoid having to join Nidhogg's song and war, even though she felt the pull in the very core of her being. And that's to say nothing of if the Telophoroi actually bothered to have Lunar Bahamut/the Tower temper the dragons, or if they simply employed Allagan Neurolinks. In either case, however, it would be relatively easy for Tiamat to take them back.

So yeah, let's look at the Alexandrians. They were specifically wearing something like a neurolink with the capacity to alter their very souls, and they were fully tempered by said device and Necron. So they actually had a wombo combo. Both tempered and thought controlled. But mere words, spoken gently by their queen caused it to fail just enough so Necron could be beaten. Keep in mind that they are all, at a minimum, Sundered Source inhabitants, but there should be quite a few of them who have a drastic amount less aetheric density, on top of not having dragon scales.

If it's not a plot hole, then it is at least disrespectful to previously established lore. Heck, look back at the Summoner questline from ARR. Tristan Nightflicker was one of many people forced to kill family members who were tempered. If emotional response was so worthwhile, then we wouldn't have needed a cure for Tempering, now would we?

TL;DR - It's a legitimate gripe. XIV has lost its grip on its own worldbuilding.

[Dikatis]

As for the Sphene being able to break tempering with a vocal broadcast... The examples listed by Dikatis are all bad, actually, and don't excuse the Sphene scene. Sorry, not sorry.

Ga Bu was still tempered and enthralled to Titan. But his friendship with Alisaie and the relative brief exposure to Titan's energies mean that he was rendered non-responsive but otherwise non-violent. The fact that he cooperated with Alisaie despite his tempering still speaks volumes of the value of that connection.

Halric's Light infection is explicitly compared to tempering and there's a reason why the treatment for tempering is in turn derived from Alisaie's treatment of Light overexposure. The suppression of thought and memory is still there and the symptoms are similar enough for the treatment to be transferrable.

The wyverns are explicitly referred to as tempered thralls in the description for Paglth'an.

You do have a good point about the great wyrm's ability to compel their descendants with their song. But the dragons are explicitly referred to as being completely tempered.

Long have the sweeping plains of Paglth'an been home to the nomadic Amalj'aa. Though the herding of livestock keeps them constantly on the move, the permanent settlement of Zolm'ak forms the seat of power and center of their society. It is there the Telophoroi would wreak destruction, dispatching a vast host comprised of both imperial soldiers and tempered dragons, with Lunar Bahamut at its head. Yet even against these heretofore unimagined foes the Amalj'aa stand strong, with Estinien, the recently freed Tiamat, and the Eorzean Alliance at their side and eager to turn the tide.

The fact that the great wyrm's song has any effect at all on some of these dragons means that the tempering is far from absolute. And Necron's tempering effect is explicitly derived from the fear of mortality that Calyx took great pains to stoke in the populace. The idea that the single most beloved ruler in Alexandrian history whose memory has been near and dear to her people's hearts for centuries could at least pacify Necron's thralls by weakening their fear of death is hardly unbelievable, especially since it's explicitly targeted the very emotion that feeds into Necron's power.

Necron is not a primal with an ego or a will to exert over the populace. Its whole thing is that it's a self-perpetuating circuit of thanatophobia and it's nothing more than that. Past primals have a will and a desire to control the populace. Calyx was using Alexandria's fear as a battery for Necron. So they just... stand there and wallow in their terror instead of being compelled to do anything. So the woman who is practically the voice of Alexandria itself being able to at least pacify them and weaken their fears as the person the nation has relied upon for centuries doesn't really challenge my suspension of disbelief.

[RedLolly]

A little off-topic, I know - but despite having played the game for approximately four years now.... I was unaware of this.

Every single time I've played it the Tanks always deal with Susano's sword and I always took it for granted that it was a Tank's job to parry his sword.

I accidentally grabbed it my first time in there. I was a scholar, too. Why are we like this? XD

As for Sphene, I didn't think she broke through the tempered, I thought she was getting to the other Alexandrians and stopping them from adding power to Necron with the <5000 neo-regulated people.

Limiting supply, the murders, the fear-mongering public announcements, and then locking the neo-regulated people in prayer all just further empowered Necron since he was the fear of death itself. Even Necron itself fearing death empowered it.


Also, personal note here, Sphene getting to the Alexandrians kinda reinforced the Venat, despite everything, was absolutely right. She couldn't break through to the other ancients to assuage their fears and endure despite their comfy paradise life, but Sphene COULD get to Alexandrians despite similar circumstances because they had *some* level of grit and fortitude that the average unsundered ancient lacked.

Considering Dawntrail is wholly about the legacies we choose to continue, I liked that parallel.