Thread: Revelations from Patch 7.3: The Promise of Tomorrow

Originally Posted by Eltdown

My current theory is the "Winterers" are an organization of individuals forced to "winter" in the Source for various reasons, who ultimately want to go home. Some might be from reflections that have been rejoined and somehow managed to escape the fate of their worlds. In the case of the Ninth, the rest of the reflection may now be uninhabitable, overwhelmed by lightning aether.

I think you're onto something with this - it would tie in quite nicely with...

...the stuff about the Milalla escaping from the Source to the Ninth during the Fifth Umbral Calamity. Who's to say someone couldn't have done the opposite?

Originally Posted by Eltdown

The cutscene technology on display during the MSQ was great! Really enjoyed the technical level of delivery. Unfortunately, I think the writing has been XIV's weakest point through the 6.x series, 7.0 and 7.x series — and that was the case here, too. A bit predictable, a bit mishmashed as it didn't know what to do with most of the Scions. But I think this is something that can be improved in 8.0 with the right lead writer.

In particular, I am intrigued by that final cutscene, which really got me thinking:

Calyx specifically says:
"A rash decision... One perhaps influenced by the others and their developments."

"Be sure our Winterer peers are apprised of the details."

To me, both of these suggest that he's part of a larger group, the "Winterers." Out of curiosity, I looked up the dictionary definition of it to see if there were any double meanings that I wasn't aware of.

Per Merriam-Webster:


Typically, this is used in the context of migratory patterns. Someone/something that spends the winter in a particular area.

My current theory is the "Winterers" are an organization of individuals forced to "winter" in the Source for various reasons, who ultimately want to go home. Some might be from reflections that have been rejoined and somehow managed to escape the fate of their worlds. In the case of the Ninth, the rest of the reflection may now be uninhabitable, overwhelmed by lightning aether.

I think this theory could make for an interesting motivation for the Ascian in particular. We know that the Unsundered are gone — and sundered Amon/Fandaniel was from the Source. But what about a sundered Ascian that originally hailed from a rejoined reflection before being restored to office? What if they retained their memories (as Fandaniel did of being Amon) and want, more than anything, for their world to be restored... but instead of the World Unsundered, they long for one of the rejoined reflections?

If that is the goal of the Winterers, Calyx's research on soul and memory transfer could be very relevant to an effort to partition Source souls — isolating the rejoined portion of soul and manipulating memory (locking or unlocking) to restore those that have been rejoined.

Obviously this is just a theory. But it feels like this could make for an interesting parallel and foil to the original Ascians' goals, and neatly bring us into a second saga focusing on the reflections.

That is reminding me about a old question I had about the Ascians for a long time.....

We always focus on the Ascians that wanted the rejoining to bring back their old world but what about those who were happy with what they had now?

It is another possible path that these Antagonist for this new Saga has the opposite goals of the Ascians from the Zodiark Saga being they want to sunder the Source and restore the world so they can revive their own worlds.

MSQ complete!

We're not rid of Calyx and his uncanny face proportions yet. Boo hiss.

After multiple mentions and demonstrations of Sphene practising healing magicks, I don't understand why she is locked to DPS for duty support. It seems unquestionable that Wuk Lamat / Sphene / Krile would be the intended trio to accompany you on a trust run, and a healer/DPS skillset for Sphene would allow that to happen in any configuration, but instead I had to go as healer to allow for that setup -- and then the following cutscene kept doing camera angles where Aurelie's face was hidden behind her WHM staff.

Did G'raha have anything insightful to say during the dungeon if you take him?

Sphene's tiara didn't turn out to be anything dramatic (yet) but I assume the coronation is going to be the big opening number for 7.4. Though now that they've done so much effort to portray Endless Sphene as essentially a good person in a bad situation, it seems less guaranteed that it will be played as something that can come back ominously.

"Winterers" to me suggests something dormant and waiting to revive or emerge in the spring. Now put that together with Gossan's remarks about feeling like the ice is beginning to thaw...

world building

So apparently it was implied by Calyx that 'memory duplication' is incredibly taboo/not possible even by his mad science standards. So how did Endless Otis, and Endless Sphene get made if memory duplication cannot or should not be done? Reminds me of when Montichaigne explained that memory manipulation is strictly forbidden so I hope we get to see more terrifying applications of memory magic in the future.

That was a fantastic end to the Dawntrail storyline. I did kinda hope that Tuliyolal would be a bit more involved in the events, but it was not to be.

Originally Posted by mallleable

world building

So apparently it was implied by Calyx that 'memory duplication' is incredibly taboo/not possible even by his mad science standards. So how did Endless Otis, and Endless Sphene get made if memory duplication cannot or should not be done? Reminds me of when Montichaigne explained that memory manipulation is strictly forbidden so I hope we get to see more terrifying applications of memory magic in the future.

Memory duplication seems to be prohibited by Preservation less because of limitations of their science but because of Calyx's ideals of the continuity of thought defining a person. I don't think he had any qualms of backing up people who technically still existed, even then it seems it was only for people who weren't "available"/were otherwise not "alive". Otis' souls was moved to the automaton body, presumably his body perished while doing that so they were free to "back up" his memories. Similarly Sphene was in "permanent" stasis, so Endless Sphene was fair game to have. I think the point was, once you were an Endless, there wouldn't be endless (ha!) copies of you.

Opinions on the very end of the MSQ

When Calyx "died", that's what got me scared. Because if we destroyed the terminal that means that both Calyx and Preservation are gone, and if that was the case, then what the hell do we have left? What are taking to the future expansions? I was crossing my fingers that it wouldn't end that way, but from the moment we killed Calyx until the moment before the post credit scene, I was getting very worried and ready to be disappointed.

The post credits scene was soooooooooo important to me. Like, you have no idea how much less I would have liked this conclusion otherwise.

I'm happy Calyx is alive, I'm happy his smug mask dropped at the end there and he had a minor crash out, I'm happy they finally revealed the Ascian(s). The Ascians still exist and they are around, it would be extremely weird if we didn't hear anything else from them.

I pointed this out in a 7.2 thread when theorizing about 7.3, but it was very clear that Calyx got his knowledge from Ascians somehow. I didn't think he was necessarily in constant communications with them, but it was almost 100% guaranteed that Ascians were involved. Not to mention of course the fact that it was Ascians that tipped the balance of the ninth to begin with.
Basically what I'm saying is that if you don't want the Ascians around and were expecting them be completely unrelated to the story then you were setting yourself up for disappointment in my opinion. I'm just glad they showed up now rather than them leaving that up in the air for too long.

Also... What the hell even is Calyx, then? He's not human. He's not an Endless because we pulled all the terminals and he's still "alive". He's not an Ascian because we know he was born in the ninth with a sickness (unless you wanna say that was all a fake story but I doubt it because our Sphene has first hand accounts), so what is he? Where was he at the end? I need to rewatch that cutscene, lol

Ok, now for some more overall thoughts:

Things I liked
- Cinematography has been the best I've ever seen in this game. Especially in the beginning with some of the shots of the murder Androids during the Geode fight. Of course, also the fight scene against Necron. 10/10 for me
- Did not expect them to kill Geode, I thought his death scene was very well done
- Overall they went for heavier themes with more blood, also Milos' mother getting shot in front of him, people getting pulverized mercilessly right in front of us. Love the direction
- The scene of us exploring the Preservation lab was fantastic. Ambience was 10/10 with the music and the aesthetics, and I also appreciate they trying new things with the puzzles. Even though there were extremely easy, still happy they exist and hope they do more.
- The post credit scene gave me a lot to chew on (already talked about it in the previous post)

Neutral
- I think the conclusion was fine. I was never super sold on the whole Endless thing, it never related to me, so all things considered I think this ended as best as it could
- Necron was very predictable, but being predictable doesn't mean it's bad. I thought it was fine, and his design was tremendous
- I do not understand the purpose of Gulool Ja in this story.

Didn't like so much, but wasn't terrible
- Still don't like what they're doing with the Scions. Alphinaud and Alisaie absolutely don't need to be here, they should've stayed back with Uri and Thancred. Yshtola and Graha at least make sense because they're looking to study and get first hand accounts, even if they didn't do much
- Smile played again (but at least it was only for 2 minutes max)
- Wasn't super sold on Sphene managing to save everyone by talking to the people while Necron was sucking the life out of everyone. I understand it's the queen, but you mean to tell me that the rest of us were just standing around staring at Calyx and nothing else while she was talking?
- Annoying that they delayed talking about the key again. It's the 3rd time in a row.

Overall very happy with the patch. IMO was the best patch so far story-wise for Dawntrail.

Originally Posted by mallleable

world building

So apparently it was implied by Calyx that 'memory duplication' is incredibly taboo/not possible even by his mad science standards. So how did Endless Otis, and Endless Sphene get made if memory duplication cannot or should not be done? Reminds me of when Montichaigne explained that memory manipulation is strictly forbidden so I hope we get to see more terrifying applications of memory magic in the future.

Zero-ELEC's got it about right, but I read it a little differently.

Memory duplication is forbidden, but the processes that created Otis and Endless Sphene weren't exactly the norm for that sequence. So I can understand it not being considered duplication in that sense, because they sort of... didn't mean to. Real Sphene still being alive was also a secret, so it wouldn't have openly looked like breaking the rule there anyway.

Also, Otis and Sphene were two of the first Endless (quite possibly THE first two), so it's entirely possible that rule wasn't applied yet.

Also also, it doesn't seem like Calyx completely agrees with the rule, he just has the integrity to hold to it. So I could also see him only holding to the letter of the rule that was agreed on, but not the spirit.

Food for my brain worms

Confirmation that The Key is indeed the twisted white crystal in the chalice-like device. Also, apparently They Key caused an explosion when opening a portal that killed several scientists during one of Preservation's experiments on it from one of the data records.

"General Daily Report

Nothing of note. The mystery of the key's activation condition remains unsolved.

The key triggered an explosion today. Temporary interdimensional portal verified. Continue attempts to stabilize the core's energy reactions.

Thirteen researchers sustained fatal injuries in the explosion. Memory faculties of four personnel sufficiently intact for Endless conversion. Remaining nine designated for aether reclamation processing.

Nothing of note. Rejected resignations of two Milalla researchers.

Major incident. Details in full report."

Why is the portal opening process so violent? I think there is still the possibility that The Key could have been intended as a weapon, and not a simple tool. How were the Millala able to open their portal safely (unless they didn't)? Auracite is said to grant miracles for those with well intentions. Azem's symbol appearing on it is still a mystery.