Am I the only one ho thinks 8.0 should be delayed by like 6months?

[Kirutsuki]

The most common counter argument I get is that the game has nothing to do while people wait, which is true, but it's not unfixable.

Generally speaking after FanFest there's like a 6month period after an expansion is released. Maaaybe 8months (I think this was endwalker). But am I really the only one who thinks that it's way too short of a period to give the developers the time to polish the corners of a next expansion and actual give something meaningfull for the end-game as well.
I would personally be ok that after the initial announcement at Fanfest there's always a full calendar year before release.

Here's my issue with expansions; Generally speaking an expansion contain the MSQ, new FATE's (that are literally copy paste from previous) and EX's to do. Beyond that you might have some crafter stuff to do, but even that stuff is literally copypasted from previous expansion with literally the same materials with different icons. (for the most part) AND hunt trains.

So the devs are pushing an expansion out as soon as they can just to please the MSQ players and to pay their yearly bills on time I guess, the latter part I understand that as a company you kind of have to pay someone something at some point. And usually there's a deadline.

But from the players perspective, the players who play only the MSQ leave right after they're done with the MSQ, might even unsub. And those of us who love the game beyond it are left with close to nothing to do unless we artificially limit ourselves by not playing as much or don't go to the marketboard to skiphalf the crafter "content". Or we just generally slow things down by AFK'ing in Limsa.

I would much rather that expansions took the time they need to release a package that actually caters to the playerbase rather than investors. Or atleast that's how it feels to me when they need to release these things at certain schedule.

The issue of "nothing to do while we wait" and people unsubbing during this period is actually more fixable than you'd think, but the devs never actually do any of it, which is weird to me.

There is never any smaller scale events that happen in the game that makes the game feel alive as a liveservice game. You might think that theres moogle events and seasonal events, but generally both of those are a bit bigger. Especially the seasonal events usually have a story to them which I think takes ALOT of extra manpower to implement into the game, but beyond that there's almost never any real small scale things that would actually keep people logged-in for the hiatus period.

Here's just a few examples:

• increased tomestone rewards for 2 weeks from roulette and hunt-trains.
• increased MGP in golden saucer this week.
• Additional event based FATE's added that give more bicolor gemstones this week.
• Doing FATE's in ARR zones gives triple XP.
• Increased PVP series XP.
• Wonderous Tails has a ARR mount reward this week.
• Added a new FATE boss in Kozama'uka for a mount.

Some of these are quite simple and basic live service things that 14 doesn't utilize at all and I don't understand why? I'm not saying that "double xp" is particullarly exiting for most players, but there are players who would probably test out PvP more if it wasn't so grindy to get all the series rewards.

And if these things happen periodically it's not like it takes away from anyone in particular.

Some of the suggested things could be a little larger, like new world bosses, but don't need any elaborate NPC questline to have them be added in the world as just things to do.

But I feel like the game could do so much during the downtime to gives player retention and allows the devs to take longer on an expansions release and when it launches it actually holds a more meningful game beyond MSQ.

And if FOMO is the issue I feel like these examples are alot more reasonable that PvP series rewards.

Just as a last note, generally speaking when an expansion launched the development for the next expansion is probably already starting, especially in Japan where they barely get vacation off all that often. But after whatever vacation they do get they're back at work planning for the next one. So 8.0 has most likely been in development since July 2024 at the latest. some parts of it probably already planned before then.

Thats barely more than 1 year in development, some of which probably have been done BEFORE the feedback from fans about Dawntrail to some degree.

So if you just look at the the full timeline Fanfest JP is in October 31, 2026, 6-8 months from there is an estimated release for 8.0. Thats comes to April 2027 release at the earliest for 8.0, thats 2 full calendar years, barely 3.

So the worst case scenario is 3 full calendar years in development for the next expansion WHILE you are also adding content to the current expansion. So not only are you taking focus away from the next expansion, you are actively shortening the time you are able to develop it. We can only hope there's actually 2 teams working on both at the same time, but even then you have half the manpower working on the current stuff.

I would just personally have them get full hands on deck for a full year after Fanfest JP. So the release would be October 31st 2027. And whatever the game does during that period is these smaller catchup events.

[Kirutsuki]

Ho = who :3

(sorry about all the typos, my KB is broken)

[Gurgeh]

Where fan fest occurs with respect to of release if 8.0 is irrelevant, artificial, and adjustable. However, I agree they need to take whatever time they need to get 8.0 amazing.
They need to hire more devs. That needs to be the constraint, and not what languages they speak.
'constraints' ought not to be a strange concept to a company that makes software.
Again I sympathise they want to keep it Japanese. I'd prefer they did too. But this is a simple case of "beggars can't be choosers"

[Kirutsuki]

Where can great it's in respect of release if 8.0. I agree they need to take whatever time they need to get 8.0 amazing.
They need to hire more devs. That needs to be the constraint, and not what languages they speak.
'constraints' ought not to be a strange concept to a company that makes software.
Again i sympathise they want to keep it Japanese. If prefer they did too. But this is a simple case of "beggars can't be choosers"

Even if there wasn't a constraint on the hiring process, it would still take a long time for that employee to actually start making meaningful headway in the games content.
I'd say atleast 3month period just to see if the employee can handle being in the company and let's say they're a graphic artist for new adventure plates, well they're most likely doing concept art or something like that for starters
and just learning the engine and how all that stuff functions and how to implement things into the game and thats you hiring one person to do one specific thing in the game. Obviously you don't hire someone to just do adventure plates,
but more than likely you give them smaller tasks to learn the ropes with. And eventually they learn the engine better and they move up the ladder as a full on UX/UI designer or something. It's alot of time to get a person up-to-speed.

So it's not like hiring more people will suddenly make the game shine bright like a diamond. At best it alleviates some of the busywork and at worst it can slow things down at the beginning.
So if they hired new people during Dawntrail, those people only start to show their worth from now going into 8.0 and beyond.

[Avoidy]

I feel like people wait way too long as it is. Like, it'd be one thing if we had stuff to do during the downtime, but there's usually nothing, or there's like a seasonal event that even the slowest reader finishes in half an hour. Best case scenario they do a moogle event full of old rewards, like bruh

And tbh 8.0 has seen longer wait times between patches than ever. What are we at now, 4 months? 4 and a half? Whether or not the content is worth the wait, I'll leave to others to discuss but yeah.

So no, for what we're actually getting, and considering all the extra time they've already given themselves, and the probable delay were already looking at, I don't think an even longer delay is warranted or will even necessarily lead to a better product. That said, if they wanna cancel sub fees during the delay downtime, or provide something worth doing that's enjoyable during that time frame, then yeah, sure, take as much time as you need.

[Kirutsuki]

I feel like people wait way too long as it is. Like, it'd be one thing if we had stuff to do during the downtime, but there's usually nothing, or there's like a seasonal event that even the slowest reader finishes in half an hour. Best case scenario they do a moogle event full of old rewards, like bruh

And tbh 8.0 has seen longer wait times between patches than ever. What are we at now, 4 months? 4 and a half? Whether or not the content is worth the wait, I'll leave to others to discuss but yeah.

So no, for what we're actually getting, and considering all the extra time they've already given themselves, and the probable delay were already looking at, I don't think an even longer delay is warranted or will even necessarily lead to a better product. That said, if they wanna cancel sub fees during the delay downtime, or provide something worth doing that's enjoyable during that time frame, then yeah, sure, take as much time as you need.

So I'm gonna take this as a way of you saying it takes too long for them to make a half-baked MSQ expansion with almost nothing to do beyond it and alot of it being copypaste?
Since they way you worded it it sounded like regardless of how good an expansion is or how big, they take too long, which to me sounds really unreasonable considering game development and just how much they focus attention to detail.

Thats why I also mentioned that the summer festival stuff do have a place, but considering they take a player 15minutes to complete, it feels like a waste of development effort to add in the whole NPC storyline they usually have included.
If it takes the devs like let's say 3months to implement the seasonal festival into the game, and you have to start almost right away the development of the next seasonal festival for october, well don't you think you're putting too much effort on content people play through in 15minutes? And I vager alot of it is because of the NPC dialogue stuff to make sense in the world etc.

Again, those things do have a place, but if it takes a way from the consistency of a live service game it's not a good way to go about it when people contantly go on for 3month breaks to wait for whatever comes next.
The game needs those weekly or monthly live servicy things to kind of keep people active regularly.

And those things shouldn't need a fell 3month development or playtesting to make sure it functions perfectly. Just add small appetizers to the games hiatus period that doesn't take too much away from other things.
Heck alot of it could be automated to hapen on weekly basis.

[DiaDeem]

[Saraide]

Lets be real, the biggest constraint on the hiring process is that SE just doesnt pay that well. This is especially bad because they ask people to work on an ancient MMO. If you are an aspiring gamedev in japan, SE is your last resort.

[Kirutsuki]

Lets be real, the biggest constraint on the hiring process is that SE just doesnt pay that well. This is especially bad because they ask people to work on an ancient MMO. If you are an aspiring gamedev in japan, SE is your last resort.

That's proobably in comparison to pay in the US / EU, but I did check thrugh Classdoor and the average sallaries seemed pretty on par with what CDProjektRed or Ninja Theory pay.

Game programmer at CD Projekt Red: 68-119K/year
SE Programmer (which I think is somewhat similar position): 69K-135K/Year
Ninja Theory on the lower end for Programmer: at 34-74K/year.

If anything just from a quick glanze it pays more to be on SE payroll than CD Projekt Red. But that would really require a more thorough research.

Edit: I even looked at some MiHoYo (genshin impact) sallaries and they seemed lower than at SE. But it's hard to say what the truth is unless you know.

[Saraide]

That's proobably in comparison to pay in the US / EU, but I did check thrugh Classdoor and the average sallaries seemed pretty on par with what CDProjektRed or Ninja Theory pay.

Game programmer at CD Projekt Red: 68-119K/year
SE Programmer (which I think is somewhat similar position): 69K-135K/Year
Ninja Theory on the lower end for Programmer: at 34-74K/year.

If anything just from a quick glanze it pays more to be on SE payroll than CD Projekt Red. But that would really require a more thorough research.

Edit: I even looked at some MiHoYo (genshin impact) sallaries and they seemed lower than at SE. But it's hard to say what the truth is unless you know.

It's in comparison with Gamedev companies in Japan. SE does not rank amongst the top 20 highest paying.

https://automaton-media.com/en/news/...o-ranks-third/