Dark Knight - rework- changes 8.0 suggestion

[ThurinTurambar]

get your point but talkin about tank that pulls 2-3 packs monsters but we have one random asso expect them handle more then that clearly they cannot and is using cooldown trying do there best but some random fucker wants makes things worse watch in the end ruins there cooldown rolation watch leave them wide open next pull. cause of some idiot trying to troll

Yeah forcing wall to wall in places with more than 2 packs before the 'wall' is not what dps should do.

But coming back to what i said, just yesterday i had a tank in bardam's mettle that did not do aoe gcds, did not press mitigations and stood in mechanics. They did say anything in chat either. I was ripping aggro on my second flare on every pack and the mobs would stay on me. Thats the kind of tank i do not wish on anyone

[Vatom]

Both are overpowered.

You dont need a tank and healer you just need one, you can clear any dungeon without a Tank, you can clear any dungeon without a Healer.

I would say that's a big problem and cb3 needs too look at the fundamentals before anything

[Carighan]

I would say that's a big problem and cb3 needs too look at the fundamentals before anything

It's a fundamental issue that is bigger than the jobs and their abilities. In fact, comparing other MMORPGs, both the tank and the healer-kits aren't even strong in FFXIV. Healer kits are oGCD/CD overburdened while being underpowered and underdeveloped on the GCD-heal side (compare WoW having selections of heals like efficient-but-slow, big-but-costly, fast-but-costly, that stuff). Tanks have maybe a bit needlessly many CDs instead of fewer stronger ones on shorter CDs, but that's mostly a wash.

The underlying issue is an utter unwillingness to deal any real amount of damage to either tanks or the group. And that's a problem. It means tanks can survive pulled large groups of mobs, while healers can spend all their time GCD-nuking, healing what damage there is mostly with oGCDs.

The solution would be a combination of significantly raising HP pools (but not defenses), importantly not adjusting healing/regeneration/shields (so you take long to die even against high incoming damage, but you cannot trivially be re-healed either, it takes real time and mana to do that), then:

* Increase all melee damage output massively (remember even non-tanks have high health pools now!).
* Make many melee attacks cleaving, some even 360° (extra damage on melee DPS that has to be healed).
* Make autoattacks able to crit, and make crit-resistance a type of damage reduction (allows further tank differentiation, one tank could be mostly or passively crit-immune in return for weaker CDs or less passive damage reduction).
* Bigger individual trash mobs and bosses constantly have some way of dealing low~medium damage to non-tank party members. Say on every autoattack they shoot two bolts at random people for 25%-30% of their HP pool, or they cause unchoreographed line and circle AoEs to erupt in the area hitting for 15%-20% on everyone hit, or they just have a ticking AoE DoT that cannot be disabled that still deals non-trivial damage every few seconds.

This together with changing healer and tank kits would allow a setup where healers spend most of their GCDs on healing, not damage, while also being able (heals cost a lot!) deplete their mana pools, so tank damage resistance against "normal" damage matters a lot suddenly. Meanwhile tanks cannot hold their defensive kit just for the 1-2 special abilities, they need to constantly reduce how much healing they require (or re-heal themselves, crucial all of a sudden!), and DPS need to actually utilitze their defensive and self-healing abilities (which probably need some buff then, too).

The thing is... that's too much. That would basically mean scrapping the combat system entirely, including all enemy actions, and re-doing it from the start. And that for 100 levels of existing content. No way are they going to do that.

[Mikey_R]

Dark Mind is actually uniquely 60s and is part of the reason its so busted.

I was meant to make note of this, but it seemed I forgot to add it. So thanks for the correction.

I couldnt even bother anwsering the troll at this point nod for you doing so cant believe someone called dark busted

The fact I disagree with your initial premise does not make me a troll (does that also mean everyone that agrees with the fact DRK tanking is fine below level 70 is also a troll?).

Then, to not even engage with the most basic of points shows you do not care enough. I could have also gone down a route comparing healers and how they stack up to healing DRK to see if it was just one healer having 'issues' or if it was multiple, which could have pointed more towards a problem with a specific healer than DRK itself. All these things needs to be considered in a more objective manner to really pin point where the perceived problem is rather than just baseless accusations.

[Katish]

This was before abysmal(lmao) drain got buffed...so I wasn't getting fully healed each time, I was the tank. Minimal item level synced as well, so SMN didn't have phoenix and the party was crippled on the level syncing down below what you typically queue as, there were still mistakes made on the party's part but we were still fine.Take it as you like, but what I came to understand is that even though DrK might have the least sustain it doesn't matter because even the least amount of sustain compared to the other three is still too much...and that doesn't begin to include other jobs and what they can do now party wide.


There are runs without TBN as well in there if you want to look for them

https://youtu.be/zttiIWIZsaA?feature=shared&t=1849

[Carighan]

dont care about that what care about is ability to tank proparly at 1-70 dont care about what i do at max level. sense i do not care to do that content ever. deal with toxic players evolved.

So your solution is to... be toxic on the forums to exemplify to other players what you feel is wrong about high-level play? That's a weird choice, but you do you.