SE: Please tone it down a hair

[OJtheLIONKing]

I'll just say this again. Plot is amazing, dialogue is amazing, but frequently it is just too drawn out.

Not so much for the BIG quests (main scenario, GC, job/class), but especially for some of the side quests where eventually I'm like "OH MY GOD STOP TALKING!!!". But I read it all anyway, because I want to absorb every bit of lore I can.

Complaints aside, when it comes to story we should all be able to agree that FF MMOs, both XI and XIV, have done it way better than any others...cept maybe Asheron's Call...

Pretty much this. Like I said before, I really like the way some of the Ivalice games did dialogue, which is similar to how this game handles it. Right now it's just too much fluff and not enough actual information in some quests, especially side quests. Call it flavor if you like, but if you take 5x as long to deliver information than you need, you're just a bad communicator. Yes, I can probably include myself in that category, but then I'm not a professional writer/localizer.

[ShinChuck]

For the record, most people don't want to be talked down to, they don't want *dumbed down* dialog. They want run on sentences, excess dialog and the abundance of purple prose out of the way.

Nobody is objecting to detailed, intricate lore and story. We're objecting to dialog for the sake of dialog rather than for the sake of meaning, effect or emotion.

[Rydin]

For the record, most people don't want to be talked down to, they don't want *dumbed down* dialog. They want run on sentences, excess dialog and the abundance of purple prose out of the way.

Nobody is objecting to detailed, intricate lore and story. We're objecting to dialog for the sake of dialog rather than for the sake of meaning, effect or emotion.

well said...

[Tsuwu]

I actually am going to say that the language use is fantastic.
And that the writing is beautiful, even if some of the speeches do insist on themselves to a point.
There aren't many times I've even done a double-take. It's much more modern than Shakespeare and it's not as dumbed down as some other tragically senseless RPGs.

I enjoy the descriptive eloquence.
I don't think they should wax poetic for 8 text boxes just for the sake of filling space or lengthening a cutscene.
But I don't want things to be reduced to simple straightforward English.

It would ruin immersion like crazy if an NPC like Louisoux were to suddenly blurt:

"Hey, go get me five tapers and I'll make you a lantern. You can obtain them from some Amal'ja in Thanalan."
"Oh, good job! You killed Ifrit! Good thing you did. Ifrit was scary. Now, go get me more tapers."

[Huginn]

simple solution for the illiterate and those who do not enjoy storyline (also the few who just think it too verbose): jam the enter key, go to journal, check map. Maybe SE could even add a "skip dialogue" option after pressing escape twice.

Honestly, I play Final Fantasy for the story. I find comradery in those who also enjoy the story and lore of the game. I talked to Erik untill he wouldn't tell me anymore, even wanting him to insult me, just to see more.
When playing FFXI, I learned the lore of the whole of Vana'diel. From the legend of Garuda saving the prince and in so becoming the Lord of the Skies to the ancient history of both San d'Orias. Could you imagine how lame it would have been if we just never knew the relationship of San d'Oria and Tavnazia? or why San d'Oria did not fall in the great war? or how President Karst came to influence and power? or how the Animastery worked?

Please, PLEASE, if you don't like the overly verbose dialogue, just skip it. Those of us who enjoy reading would very much like to keep it. Feel free to complain about dialogue that is written with an accent, or speech impediment... or insanity; just leave the storyline out of it.

[ShinChuck]

simple solution for the illiterate and those who do not enjoy storyline (also the few who just think it too verbose): jam the enter key, go to journal, check map. Maybe SE could even add a "skip dialogue" option after pressing escape twice.

Honestly, I play Final Fantasy for the story. I find comradery in those who also enjoy the story and lore of the game. I talked to Erik untill he wouldn't tell me anymore, even wanting him to insult me, just to see more.
When playing FFXI, I learned the lore of the whole of Vana'diel. From the legend of Garuda saving the prince and in so becoming the Lord of the Skies to the ancient history of both San d'Orias. Could you imagine how lame it would have been if we just never knew the relationship of San d'Oria and Tavnazia? or why San d'Oria did not fall in the great war? or how President Karst came to influence and power? or how the Animastery worked?

Please, PLEASE, if you don't like the overly verbose dialogue, just skip it. Those of us who enjoy reading would very much like to keep it. Feel free to complain about dialogue that is written with an accent, or speech impediment... or insanity; just leave the storyline out of it.

Exactly, leave the story out of it. Using your logic, I could make the same argument about you: that BECAUSE you're supporting overly verbose dialog full of lacking meaning just for flavor, you're hurting those of us who DO want the story, by advocating more purple prose and rambling over intricate lore and quality, well-written storytelling. Purple prose, by definition, undermines the writing.

Verbose does not necessarily equal good storytelling, which is all many of us are saying. Despite what I said above (just turning the insulting logic around to illustrate the point), if you think it's solid storytelling, that's absolutely, 100% fine. However, don't imply that just because we find the WRITING poor, we somehow don't want or can't appreciate a good, intricate storyline and lore.

We could learn every single thing you mentioned... by trimming the dialog. Nobody, nobody, nobody is advocating trimming the LORE or the actual STORYTELLING. We're simply asking that it's not be written in a manner that is "so extravagant, ornate, or flowery as to break the flow and draw attention to itself". We feel that your own admittedly "overly verbose" dialog draws attention to itself, and you, by defining it as such, seem to agree, even if you enjoy it in itself.

Remember, Shakespeare said "brevity is the soul of wit", and I don't think any of us are arrogant enough to claim to know better than Shakespeare.

[Fernehalwes]

Hello all,

For those of you who don't frequent the Localization forum, this is Fernehalwes, one of three members who make up the FINAL FANTASY XIV English Localization team stationed here at Square Enix headquarters in Tokyo.

First off, I wanted to thank everyone for taking the time to voice their opinions here in the forums. I know it sounds cliche, but we truly do appreciate all the feedback we get, whether it be positive or...not-so-positive. An MMO is a living being that grows and evolves with every patch. And just as the game evolves, so too do those of us working on it. Knowing what issues concern you, the users, helps us to evolve in the right direction.

When it comes to the overall writing style employed in the game, it looks like there's a clean split between those who enjoy it and those who find it either overwhelming or overbearing (or a combination of both).

There does appear, however, to be one thing that a majority of you agree on--and that is that there is a tendency for most NPCs to fall into the trap of over-exposition, and how this can, at times, seriously bog down the game's flow.

Currently (in the pre-2.0 scheme of things), when text arrives in our hands, the Japanese has been finalized (meaning the story content is set, the cutscene is done, and the number of tags (or in other words, the number of 'text advances') has been fixed). While decisions on individual characterizations, speech patterns, word choice, etc. are left to us, there are certain things we are powerless to change--one of those being the number of tags used. If the original Japanese uses 10 tags explain that you need to go fetch 5 hippogryph hides from the Coerthas highlands or nana won't survive the winter, we also must use 10 tags...even if it is much more natural to do so in 2 or 3. There is always the option to simply cut text and see that each tag is shaved down to one simple sentence, but doing this puts us at the risk of leaving EN version users in the dark on certain story points that may or may not be relevant in the future.

The LOC team, however, hasn't been completely silent on this issue. We have voiced our concerns regarding dialogue length, as well as relayed to the higher-ups user opinions found in this and similar threads (the "Brevity is the Soul of Wit" post being the first to come to mind). And, while I don't believe that XIV will ever be called 'light on text,' I do genuinely believe that some changes are in store for 2.0. There are those among us who realize that while there is a place for a good, meaty yarn, there is also a place for quick, concise storytelling.

In the meantime, the LOC team will continue to tweak our own writing styles, knowing that though we cannot please everyone, we should always be making an effort to please as many people as possible. And if that includes removing a handful (alright, a barrel-full) of apostrophes from Limsa Lominsa's pirate-speak or polishing the speech patterns of a major character, then so be it

Now only if I could have said that all in one paragraph instead of seven...

Thank you again, everyone, for your continued support, and we look forward to your future comments.

[Urthdigger]

*Thread complains about NPCs being long-winded*
*Community rep makes a long-winded reply*

I see what you did there!

[HiirNoivl]

lol Poor Fernhawles

Thank you for your explanation. It's such a shame that you're kind of handcuffed to what you're given, to the detriment of the writing in English! It's such a shame!

Please keep working hard for the lore and its presentation! You'll never know how much we appreciate it!

Poor guy doesn't even get a crown.

[Zaaku]

Oh neat, a rep responded.

Fernehalwes, thanks for taking the time to let us know that you guys pay attention to the forums and by association your fans. It actually does mean a lot.

If at any point it seemed I was condemning the writing team please allow me to say that was never my intention. You've all done a great job with the script and bringing the characters to life. I can say that it is some of the most impressive work I've come across in an MMO format. My primary concern was more or less the length of the average NPC's dialogue.

Keep up the great work!