Revelations from Patch 7.3: The Promise of Tomorrow

[Shookbeast]

Counter Question: Why did it matter that Ardbert was an Azem shard?

There were things only Ardbert could do as a reflection of the WoL, and it made the relationship he had with us more meaningful. It's like meeting a long lost brother or sister.
Of course people would be excited to see more of them; how is that even something to get confused or irritated by? Especially now that Azem's key is a major focus in the story, the fate and legacy of Azem is more relevant than ever.

I second this opinion, and I’m excited for possible Azem arcs. I find value in Azem shards because it’s a way for the player character to make some (personally) meaningful discoveries about themself.

What if the cloaked “you know who” at the end of the “you know what” cutscene is actually not a regular blankety blank… but is a shard of our volcano grape savior? But a bad one! (Duhn duhn duhn!)

Then anyone who is a shard of us/them - well they’re in danger. The bad one might want to eat them. Or maybe already has.

Cleretic, you are a wealth of knowledge and lore - but it’s clear you simply do not care for Azem theory - but there is plenty of room for us all to spin our fantasies. What favorite theories are you picking up hints for as this expansion winds down/up?

As far as my thoughts on 7.3. Yeesh. I appreciated the ways the writers tried to break up the MSQ, but looking back on it all now, this story gives me big Dragon Age 3 release pattern vibes.

That game got its ending cut off, and released a while later as DLC. It was done as a way to stretch out the story for more content and more cash.

Dawntrail (in my opinion) should have been the 7.0, 7.1, 7.2, and 7.3 patches as a single release - with the filler cut down. 7.3 didn’t feel like the end of Dawntrail - it felt like the story finally kicked into gear - and that feels a bit too little too late for me.

Also, I wish we got a 7th zone that was all the broken down underbelly of Everkeep. The dungeons in that vein were cool, but I want a zone to explore and spend time in. Something like the sub-sub-sub-basements in Portal 2.

[Cleretic]

Counter Question: Did it not matter that Ardbert was an Azem shard?

Genuinely? No, I don't think it did. Not putting this in spoiler tags after this, because it's Shadowbringers and we've all finished Dawntrail.

Zeroing in on Ardbert's story, he is a hero who tried his best, only to come up short: he tried to fight evil, and evil won. In Heavensward, we see him first grappling with that, first through lashing out at others: he and his group are readily happy to pull the knives out against someone else, but as we learn, it's not really out of blaming someone else, but just desperately trying to claw out a victory. Hydaelyn offers them one... but even that doesn't truly work in the way he was hoping for. So in Shadowbringers we see him in despair, just glumly watching the world die, blaming himself, and being literally unable to do anything to help it. But over the course of the story he sees us do our level best, against all odds actually managing to claw up some wins, and eventually, he comes to terms with the fact that while he can't bring that victory he fought for... someone else can. That even if he isn't the one that crosses the finish line, he still made an important contribution, and helped save the day. It's a really solid story, and relatable in a lot of ways even if you aren't swinging an axe against voidsent for a living; that's the takeaway from so many political campaigns, so many sports seasons, so many mentorships.

Him being an Azem shard gave the mechanical elements to take that final step... and that's about it. Outside of that one, single cutscene, Ardbert being an Azem shard does not come up, and does not affect his story (in fact I'd argue that it made it worse in retrospect, but that's my general dislike of 'destined heroes' at play). If I wanted another Ardbert from this game's story, that is the literal last part of the equation that I think is relevant, because much more important than some indistinct macguffin specialness is who he was and what his story was. Not 'whether or not I can eat him because of weird soul compatibility', which is apparently important for others.

Cleretic, you are a wealth of knowledge and lore - but it’s clear you simply do not care for Azem theory - but there is plenty of room for us all to spin our fantasies. What favorite theories are you picking up hints for as this expansion winds down/up?

I don't theorize and predict stories; that's just not something I like doing, especially baselessly. The only 'predictions' I have are actually about the Vana'diel, Arcadion and Occult Crescent stories, and that's because I feel very confident that I know where those are going (Promathia, 'punch Vince McMahon in the face', and 'more weird 5AE stuff' respectively); I don't find making that prediction 'fun' so much as I find it a logical conclusion. But even if I did enjoy that enough to do it for fun, I'd have no trains to follow here: any threads I was actively excited in seeing through died in that last cutscene, because that reveal was THAT BIG a black hole of interest to me.

I instead enjoy getting the story as I get it, and exploring it as much as I have the joy to explore. And right now, that part of me is looking forward to finishing out the Vana'diel raids and Occult Crescent (the Arcadion story I have less interest in), learning everything I can about the Pilgrim's Traverse, and going to Meracydia next expansion (because, again: feels like a safe bet).

[Thighland]

Ardbert being an Azem shard does not come up, and does not affect his story (in fact I'd argue that it made it worse in retrospect, but that's my general dislike of 'destined heroes' at play).

So it's not really that Ardbert being an Azem shard doesn't matter, it's just that you don't like the trope of the 'destined hero', and you don't want to look at Ardbert that way.
I can understand why someone would dislike it, but if one is looking for a story without this trope, then ffxiv would definitely and 100% be the wrong place for it; and it always has been.

I don't theorize and predict stories; that's just not something I like doing, especially baselessly.

That is fine.
But if you don't like theorizing and predicting, then why are you engaging with people who enjoy doing it?
It feels like you're trying to convince others to conform to your way of engaging with the story, or you're looking down on theorizers in general.

[Cleretic]

and it always has been.

Actually, it hasn't. I'm not gonna go beyond one post on this one, because it's a derail for a fight I can tell I'm not gonna win, but:

For most of the game's life, the only thing making us a 'destined hero' was the Echo and/or the Blessing of Light (depending on which of those was more important that day). ...except that wasn't really anything all that special; even from the point we learned what those things were, we knew plenty of other people who had them, and are aware of plenty more, because it's the level of special-ness required to be a player character in an MMO, essentially. Much more important is having the gumption to go out there and Do The Thing, and that's the thing that the story holds to be more important: the WoL is not celebrated as The Warrior of Light because some divine deity declared that they are, but because they keep sticking their neck out and saving people from the horrors that are out there.

...except that then Shadowbringers, or more specifically 5.3, stepped in and said 'no it's actually because you specifically are Super Special'. That we were always going to do these things, because we have the soul of someone destined to do these things. There was no exaltation of the WoL like this before this point, no declaration that they're inherently better. ...and interestingly, there also isn't much of that after Shadowbringers, either; Endwalker is an array of contrived circumstances that we end up in simply because we and the rest of the Scions are highly capable and the world is desperate, and in Dawntrail we're largely there on reputation, and our ability to prove we earned said reputation.

You can call us a 'destined hero', and I can't tell you you're wrong. But I much prefer the reading that we are simply very good at this, and I think that sometimes people expect the former so much that they neglect the narrative strengths of the latter. That maybe, the next Ardbert isn't that way because he's got a special soul, but because he's a guy out doing his best.

[Vyrerus]

I second this opinion, and I’m excited for possible Azem arcs. I find value in Azem shards because it’s a way for the player character to make some (personally) meaningful discoveries about themself.

What if the cloaked “you know who” at the end of the “you know what” cutscene is actually not a regular blankety blank… but is a shard of our volcano grape savior? But a bad one! (Duhn duhn duhn!)

Then anyone who is a shard of us/them - well they’re in danger. The bad one might want to eat them. Or maybe already has.

Cleretic, you are a wealth of knowledge and lore - but it’s clear you simply do not care for Azem theory - but there is plenty of room for us all to spin our fantasies. What favorite theories are you picking up hints for as this expansion winds down/up?

As far as my thoughts on 7.3. Yeesh. I appreciated the ways the writers tried to break up the MSQ, but looking back on it all now, this story gives me big Dragon Age 3 release pattern vibes.

That game got its ending cut off, and released a while later as DLC. It was done as a way to stretch out the story for more content and more cash.

Dawntrail (in my opinion) should have been the 7.0, 7.1, 7.2, and 7.3 patches as a single release - with the filler cut down. 7.3 didn’t feel like the end of Dawntrail - it felt like the story finally kicked into gear - and that feels a bit too little too late for me.

Also, I wish we got a 7th zone that was all the broken down underbelly of Everkeep. The dungeons in that vein were cool, but I want a zone to explore and spend time in. Something like the sub-sub-sub-basements in Portal 2.

Huh Bad News Bears, evil Azem shard that tries to eat us for more power would be kind of interesting. Well, could be, at any rate. I don't know how they'd write that, nor how the guy would actually set him or herself up to chow down on the WoL. We're some tough meat.

Also the nattering issue of, Azem was removed from ze Convocation, and his stone was made in secret. Idk how an evil Azem would even be raised into position.

I guess if I wanted to take the leap of faith, it's possible that a non-standard raising of an exceptional individual to another seat could have triggered Azem memories in an unpleasant way. Cause remember Ye Olde Emet-selch said they do sometimes raise guys that aren't the same soul shards as the prior Convocation members, but we then had 0 examples of that.

It could be cool to see a split personality character, 1 part Azem, and 1 part remaining Convocation seat. My memory's dumped most small XIV stuff since I lost interest. Can't remember which seats are still left. It was what, 2 or 3 Convocation members left to show? And the ever present possibility of 8UE timeline Emet coming out of the 1st's Crystal Tower basement as a long term stowaway in stasis sort of thing.

But I guess the biggest questions would be, what do the remaining Ascians attempt to do now? People theorize there's only so many paths they can take, but what if the writers get really simple with it, and have them aim to resummon Zodiark? I mean, he is just the original primal, supposedly. Why wouldn't they be able to summon him again, if they got enough aether? Yes, it sounds boring, but I just don't know what else they'd do with Ascians, as many folks have said in the past that being Ascian at all marks you as a Zodiark adherent vs. regular Ancient or whatever (compartmentalization if you ask me).

What I'm more interested in, is what sort of villain factions for fodder are we going to get? Initially we had the Garleans, but now it seems like we're doomed to get random faction bad guys every time there's new bad guys. Solution-9's Robo army with Feral Soul generals being what we just put to bed. What's next? Steampunk Magisteam soldiers from The 4th? Or more robo soldiers from somewhere else?

Or are we gonna get like... a whole ass Ascian army? Like what if the last 3 went off on their own machinations, and just started raising anyone who could use magic into having Ascian powers and techniques like the teleporting and rift hopping? What if they're serving some monarch on another shard who has some sort of highly desirable domination goal, and he's made the Ascians into foot soldiers?

Probably a bit farfetched, but I've always loved speculating on the future. It doesn't rob me of enjoyment I have, because I don't expect what I imagine to be what we get. XI broke me of that long ago. I just like the way Final Fantasy activates my imagination.

[Shookbeast]

Huh Bad News Bears, evil Azem shard that tries to eat us for more power would be kind of interesting. Well, could be, at any rate. I don't know how they'd write that, nor how the guy would actually set him or herself up to chow down on the WoL. We're some tough meat.

Also the nattering issue of, Azem was removed from ze Convocation, and his stone was made in secret. Idk how an evil Azem would even be raised into position.

I guess if I wanted to take the leap of faith, it's possible that a non-standard raising of an exceptional individual to another seat could have triggered Azem memories in an unpleasant way. Cause remember Ye Olde Emet-selch said they do sometimes raise guys that aren't the same soul shards as the prior Convocation members, but we then had 0 examples of that.

It could be cool to see a split personality character, 1 part Azem, and 1 part remaining Convocation seat. My memory's dumped most small XIV stuff since I lost interest. Can't remember which seats are still left. It was what, 2 or 3 Convocation members left to show? And the ever present possibility of 8UE timeline Emet coming out of the 1st's Crystal Tower basement as a long term stowaway in stasis sort of thing...

I’m still subscribing to the theory that there isn’t an Azem - that Azem is us - and we eventually time travel back to the past as the player character to do all the Azem stuff in an upcoming expansion. (Whether we then get sundered, or our memories are persevered and shot forward in time is another debate with countless solutions).

So an Azem shard might not have any memories, because that would reveal the spoiler that we are Azem. (Unless that is how they plan on revealing it). 7.3 has given us even more ways for characters to persist beyond their soul’s demise/sundering/whatever.

But what I could see happening is the leftover Ascians identifying Azem soul shards, raising one of them with false or corrupted memories, and then helping them absorb other Azem shards in an attempt to make them as powerful as our WOLs.

I’m still suspicious of Calyx. He could very well be an Azem shard. In fact, all the folk implied to be in this organization could be Azem shards. Like a little team of “we’re your worst fans” for the WOL to contend with.

I just wish 7.3 spent more time on intrigue and drama. I liked people speculating that Shale would double-cross us - and we didn’t get that. We’ve moved nowhere on the key. We’ve shown no interest in the 9th. We were in no way interested in Preservation until one of them tried to zap us to death. Why did we learn all that stuff about Krile’s parents in a Disneyland volcano, and not while exploring the creepy underbelly of Everkeep trying to get answers?

Sigh.

[Thighland]

I’m still suspicious of Calyx. He could very well be an Azem shard.

You need to have a soul to be an Azem shard, and it's pretty much confirmed that Calyx doesn't have one (anymore).
Did you consider that?

[Shookbeast]

You need to have a soul to be an Azem shard, and it's pretty much confirmed that Calyx doesn't have one (anymore).
Did you consider that?

Indeed. He had one when he was alive. Maybe his body is on ice somewhere, soul included. It’s also an interesting notion that he could be the memory of an Azem shard - but his soul might be currently reincarnated elsewhere. That puts a potentially innocent person in danger.

Or… maybe Calyx traded his soul to a helpful Ascian - an Ascian who is collecting similar Azem souls across all the shards. (Pure speculation of course).

I really hope 7.4 kicks this story into gear. It was so frustrating wading through 7.0 to 7.3 as we discovered amazing things - and then constantly walked away from them with no one asking any questions. The reveal of the gate in 7.0 - only to immediately leave - that was so wild. (And disappointing).

I admire and enjoy the slower moments with characters - and same goes for the puzzles - but I would love the story to start connecting some dots soon. The mysteries don’t feel like mysteries… they just feel like we’re too lazy to walk over to Y'shtola or G'Raha and ask (any) questions.

[TheRealQuah]

I’m still subscribing to the theory that there isn’t an Azem - that Azem is us - and we eventually time travel back to the past as the player character to do all the Azem stuff in an upcoming expansion. (Whether we then get sundered, or our memories are persevered and shot forward in time is another debate with countless solutions).

So an Azem shard might not have any memories, because that would reveal the spoiler that we are Azem. (Unless that is how they plan on revealing it). 7.3 has given us even more ways for characters to persist beyond their soul’s demise/sundering/whatever.

But what I could see happening is the leftover Ascians identifying Azem soul shards, raising one of them with false or corrupted memories, and then helping them absorb other Azem shards in an attempt to make them as powerful as our WOLs.

I’m still suspicious of Calyx. He could very well be an Azem shard. In fact, all the folk implied to be in this organization could be Azem shards. Like a little team of “we’re your worst fans” for the WOL to contend with.

I just wish 7.3 spent more time on intrigue and drama. I liked people speculating that Shale would double-cross us - and we didn’t get that. We’ve moved nowhere on the key. We’ve shown no interest in the 9th. We were in no way interested in Preservation until one of them tried to zap us to death. Why did we learn all that stuff about Krile’s parents in a Disneyland volcano, and not while exploring the creepy underbelly of Everkeep trying to get answers?

Sigh.

This tends to be what I believe as well. It explains what Azem was doing during the final days - it was us and we knew we needed to be sundered so did not interfere, which explains why someone who was meant to help everyone all the time, didn't lift a finger to stop things.

The winterer's must now know that the WoL is Azem - but not rejoined. We could be looking at a scenario where they think to beat us, they need to "become" us - find all the other shards of Azem and fuse them, then pit them against us. This could even see them finding a way to sunder us again, which would also go some way towards bringing us back from the killing gods days, if we go back to being 1/14th.